juliancates Posted September 20, 2010 Share Posted September 20, 2010 I'm curious what the SM guys are doing for tire longevity. In GTS2 for instance, I get two race weekends out of a set of Hoosiers before they heat cycle out. They have plenty of tread, but their life as a fast tire is over after 8-12 heat cycles or so. I'm curious what type of life you guys see, and if the tires are fast until they cord, or if there is a definite dropoff after a certain number of heat cycles. Please also comment on what level of tire shaving you do, and how this affects longevity and grip. I appreciate the feedback. I'm in the very beginning stages of doing a cost comparison, and wondering if I might have more fun (or at least as much as I am already having!) for less money in SM. Cheers! Julian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ev Posted September 20, 2010 Share Posted September 20, 2010 My understanding is Toyos on SM's (when started shaved) run their fastest laps just before the cord Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skrzastek Posted September 20, 2010 Share Posted September 20, 2010 I ran my 2nd hand RA-1's (10ish heat cycles when I got them) half of last season and all of this season and I will continue to do so until they cord (of course I have a near non-exsitent race budget.....) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliancates Posted September 20, 2010 Author Share Posted September 20, 2010 Thanks for the feedback, guys. I guess one thing i would like to understand is if the frontrunners are bringing stickers every event, while guys who are content to contend mid pack are getting more life out of their tires? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosm3os Posted September 22, 2010 Share Posted September 22, 2010 Julian: Don't let the Kraut Boys see you in here! I don't think the sticker issue is as big a deal with Toyos vs. Hoosiers cause the performance drop off with heat cycles is not even close to Hoosiers. But hey, I only have one weekend under my belt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ffspecracer Posted September 22, 2010 Share Posted September 22, 2010 Not on a SM, but the Toyo's on an FFR get faster the older they get. Track records have been set during a session that corded a tire. With that said 50-60 heat cycles is about the max then there is a noticeable performance difference. Front runners actually save 40-50 HC tires for special occasions. The closer you shave them, the faster they are out of the box. With that said, we have not had experience with the new generation of RA-1's. There is a question out there if the 2010+ RA-1's will be as good as the 2008 and prior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliancates Posted September 22, 2010 Author Share Posted September 22, 2010 With that said 50-60 heat cycles is about the max then there is a noticeable performance difference. Wow. With Hoo-Hoos, you get about 8. And they cost twice as much. Is it seriously possible to get 50-60 cycles out of a set that was orginally shaved to 3/32 ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosm3os Posted September 22, 2010 Share Posted September 22, 2010 If you flip them and rotate them, these things last forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp993 Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 My experience with the 2010 Toyo RA-1 shaved to 3/32 is that by about the 15th heat cycle they are bald, no tread - risk of cording means at that point they get shifted to a practice / qualifying tire rather than race - which they do pretty well at. Tire seems to get faster the balder it gets with fairly level grip from close to bald 10th heat cycle through about 20 heat cycles. I toss them at that point due to a combination of (a) feeling like the grip maybe starts to drop away (b) getting toward cord at some point © inevitably I've flat spotted the tire somewhere, somehow. Looking around, I may be being conservative - there may be life well into the "bald" zone that I'm missing out on I cannot believe anyone gets 60 heat cycles out of these tires ....... for me in SM, 10 heat cycles removes 3/32 of tread, with 20 heat cycles seeming the practical limit. This works out to about 2/3 of a set of tires / weekend including Friday practice. YMMV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosm3os Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 Chris: I hate to be the rookie questioning one of the top dogs, but seems to me you could do something to get more out of these tires. I used to be able to get 2/3 of a SEASON out of a set on my 3200 lb M3 TT car. Julian: I think everyone agrees these tires don't heat cycle out like Hoosiers. They wear like iron and are just as fast just before they cord. If you haven't driven them, you should (and will at Putnam in my car!). I think they are a blast! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ffspecracer Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 I track my tires by position on the car, miles and heat cycles. I've just gone through my 5th set of RA-1's in 4 seasons. I averaged 1100 miles on each tire and averaged 46.2 heat cycles per set. In the early days I shaved to 4/32 and got a little more life. Lately I've gone to 3/32. This has shorten the life and heat cycles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosm3os Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 45 heat cycles is exactly what I'd estimate I got out of mine on the BMW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp993 Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 Wow, I'd be interested in the replies to this, but a few other guys I know don't get much more than 20 heat cycles out of the RA-1s. Note this is from tires which are shaved to 3/32. Its possible that there is a whole bunch of unused treadwear once the tires go completely bald but I doubt it FWIW, my tires wear pretty much completely even, without any obvious signs of being tortured e.g. graining up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philstireservice Posted September 25, 2010 Share Posted September 25, 2010 Wow, I'd be interested in the replies to this, but a few other guys I know don't get much more than 20 heat cycles out of the RA-1s. Note this is from tires which are shaved to 3/32. Its possible that there is a whole bunch of unused treadwear once the tires go completely bald but I doubt it FWIW, my tires wear pretty much completely even, without any obvious signs of being tortured e.g. graining up. tire wear is also track specific. as far as longevity, it depends on where you want to run......front, mid pack or backmarker.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliancates Posted September 25, 2010 Author Share Posted September 25, 2010 as far as longevity, it depends on where you want to run......front, mid pack or backmarker.... And that's exactly what I'm trying to determine. One of the big cost factors in GTS is showing up with a fresh $1000 set of Hoo-Hoos to keep up with the other guys who are running stickers. It becomes a matter of being a second or two off the pace if you don't show up with stickers. That's what I was trying to gauge in SM. Heck, even if you did have to show up with stickers to be competitive, they would still be cheaper. But if you can contend for a longer period of time on the same set of tires... bonus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sterling Doc Posted September 25, 2010 Share Posted September 25, 2010 My penchant for running enduros makes my heat cycles a bit more hard on tires, but even with 3 hour enduros, I at least 3 weekends out of one set of RA-1's starting at 4/32nds. I've run tires well into the no tread zone, with fantastic results. The "bald" tires with 20+ HC, are worth 3/4 to 1 sec. vs. a set at 4/32nds in back-to-back-to-back testing (Set A, Set B, Set A again). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philstireservice Posted September 25, 2010 Share Posted September 25, 2010 Okay.. Brian, the Factory Fives get probably the best wear out of any class that has to run RA-1's, AI being the worst in my opinion. Julian - the fastest SM guys in the country (SCCA) race on 1/32nds and 2/32nds, depending on the track and the weather temps. I've seen 1/32nds get 1 qualifying session and 2-3 races on one set of tires. Remember set-up and driving style have a lot to do with it too. These guys don't slide the car around at all !!! In my opinion the best tires as far as consistency and quickness for a top 5 driver in SM would be 2/32nds...everyone else in the race should be on 3/32nds, working up to 2/32nds.........forget about 4/32nds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp993 Posted September 26, 2010 Share Posted September 26, 2010 Julian I know *** exactly *** what you mean by GTS requiring a fresh shaved set of Hoo Hoos and the whole slippery $$$ slope. My experience (above) is that (a) tires last 15-20 heat cycles and (b) there is a significant difference in the grip between 4/32", 2/32" and Bald. The front of the pack will qualify and run race on tires which are in the 1/32" range +/- That said, SM doesn't fall into the same trap as GTS because the tires in the 1/32" range will last several races and qualifying sessions at least. I take tires shaved to 3/32" and run those on Friday practice / Saturday practice and rotate amongst several sets of wheels / tires to manage having a "good" set i.e. bald for qualifying and either use those or a set with more tread for the race. In this way my average tire usage for a weekend *** including *** a 4 session Friday practice day is about 2/3 of a set of tires or about $350, a little over a hundred bucks a day. This is a FAR cry from the GTS tire bill, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliancates Posted October 23, 2010 Author Share Posted October 23, 2010 I'm in the very beginning stages of doing a cost comparison, and wondering if I might have more fun (or at least as much as I am already having!) for less money in SM. Well, it looks like I'll get my chance to find out first hand. Picking the Miata up in a couple of weeks. See you Midwest/GL guys and gals in the Lightning group! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp993 Posted October 23, 2010 Share Posted October 23, 2010 Julian Looking forward to dicing with you next year. Remember, for maximum tread life you should run unshaved full depth Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosm3os Posted October 23, 2010 Share Posted October 23, 2010 That's right, Chris. Every SM guy knows "more tread = more faster". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliancates Posted October 23, 2010 Author Share Posted October 23, 2010 Julian Looking forward to dicing with you next year. Remember, for maximum tread life you should run unshaved full depth Chris Likewise, Chris! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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