AI National Championship Race - OFFICIAL Results & Notes

[tacovini]

Here are some of the facts...

 

2:21PM - Green Flag dropped for first flying start (AIX/STR)

There were 5 incidents which required investigation

(4 AI body contacts and 1 STR black flag for restart violation.)

3:02PM - Checkered flag- all cars impounded for podium award ceremonies

 

Top 4 cars in each class (AIX/AI/STR1/STR2) held for technical inspections, as well as incident cars for interviews, observations and required paperwork

 

Top 4 cars in AI #50, 41, 59, 74 held for tech inspection. Items checked:

1) weight

2) tires & wheels

3) ride height minimum 5”

4) Aerodynamic devices

5) Ballast

6) Validate restrictors

7) Dyno results

 

Cars jacked up in impound and removed right side wheels/tires

#41 was DQ’d for having non-compliant wheels

#50 & 59 wheels needed to be dismounted to validate compliance

#74 wheels passed

 

~5PM…Top 3 cars sent to the dyno.

 

Conclusion: The results are now final and posted. Body contact forms have been reviewed and ruled upon. #55 was repositioned behind #14 for at fault contact per CCR Appendix A. #41 was disqualified for non-compliant wheels.

 

In the matter of the post race dyno inspections, Due to the extended wait time to get on the dyno, none of the cars were at full operating temperature for their first pulls. All 3 cars read 9-15 HP higher than their pre-race dyno certification. In addition, due to the fact that the dyno canopy was removed (packed/ready to go home), the dyno instrumentation was at its highest temperature all weekend long.

 

#71 was first to make 3 dyno passes. Despite being over on HP relative to pre-race certification, vehicle passed dyno inspection after comparing to actual post-race weight.

 

#50 was second to make 3 dyno passes. Consistent high HP readings were also found relative to pre-race certification, however, failed inspection by 1 HP relative to actual post race weight. It was noted that the vehicle did not dyno with hood closed per the driver meeting discussions and the #71 dyno pulls. 2 verification dyno pulls were conducted with hood closed. Following the verification pulls, #50 passed inspection by 1-2 HP after averaging the last 3 pulls.

 

#59 was last to make 3 dyno passes. Again, consistent with the other cars, high HP readings were found relative to pre-race certification. #59 was initially found to be 3 HP over. Following two additional verification pulls, #59 passed inspection within 3 HP after averaging the last 3 pulls.

 

It should be noted that none of the validation pulls were conducted out of the engine temperature range nor was any tuning or work allowed on the vehicles prior to or during the dyno certifications.

 

Standard procedure (especially with a national championship on the line), is for officials to re-verify any measurements prior to issuing a DQ. (i.e.- a benefit of the doubt is given to the racer as firm confirmation of findings, as was done on scales with multiple checks…ride height multiple checks…wheel/tire dismounting and other series dyno certification validations during this weekend.)

 

As an added level of verification, seven of the top AI racers were carrying GPS on board for the championship race, including these 3 cars. Dyno results were compared to GPS results and horsepower as passed on the dyno was found to be consistent with HP calculated using GPS equipment.

 

I will write a more detailed weekend race summary to provide overall weekend highlights. However, in order to finalize results, it was important to share the above facts.

 

-=- Todd Covini

[sperkins]

:grabs popcorn:

[pederb]

Thank you Todd,

 

Cheers

[nape]

AI/CMC Dynamometer Inspection Procedures

1. Only dyno runs on DynoJet brand dynamometers are acceptable.

2. One dyno report may be performed and used for the entire season provided that:

a. It is performed after the last event of the prior season and before the first race entered

for the season.

b. No performance modifications are made to the car.

3. All dyno readings must be corrected to SAE J1349 Rev JUN90 (29.23 in/hg, 77F, zero

humidity) and the dyno’s smoothing function must be set to 5

4. Car must be in “ready to race” configuration with regards to engine and drivetrain.

a. American Iron Class: All engine or drivetrain components that are adjustable and

affect power (carb jets, timing, etc.) must be explicitly allowed by the vehicle’s class

rules, must be written down in section 1 - 6 of the inspection sheet, and must match at

all times.

b. Camaro Mustang Challenge Class: All engine or drivetrain components that are not

stock and affect power or are adjustable (restrictors, air intakes, timing, etc.) must be

explicitly allowed by the vehicle’s class rules, must be written down in section 1 - 6

of the inspection sheet, and must match at all times.

5. Rear tires must be set to 30psi.

6. Hood shall be open during dyno test runs.

7. Electric engine fans and or external cooling fans may be used.

8. Dyno pulls will be made in 4th gear or at a 1:1 ratio.

9. Altitude of the dyno shop must be recorded. Dyno runs made at locations with elevation

greater than 1,500 feet higher than the track will not count as being valid at that track. Class

Officials may decide to waive this requirement for certain circumstances. CHECK WITH

YOUR LOCAL CLASS DIRECTOR ahead of time.

10. Three consecutive runs shall be made under full power. The RPM range shall be consistent

for all three runs. Starting RPM shall be no higher than 2000. Ending RPM shall be clearly

beyond max horsepower.

11. The first run shall be made with water temperature at 185F. The next run shall be with water

temperature at 195F, and the last run shall be made with temperature at 205F.

12. The peak horsepower and torque of each run will be noted on the inspection sheet.

13. The average of the three consecutive runs will be calculated and noted on the inspection

sheet. This average horsepower and torque number is what must be used to determine the

vehicle’s required minimum weight, using the car’s specific class weight rules.

14. One dyno certification may be valid for an entire race season as long as no performance

modifications are made to the car.

 

Sounds like we have some variance vs. the written rules. If you're going to leave the rules wide open, do so. Don't write rules then do whatever you want anyway. I've known for 3 years that the hood on is worth 3-4RWHP on my car and adjusted accordingly. It's why when you wrote the new certification rules for this year, I made sure I had a 90lb leeway with the hood off.

 

I'm glad you let us know the circumstances. This way, I don't have to run a run a safety margin anymore and there is a precedent for being able to make some changes to the dyno procedure while in impound to make sure I can wriggle my way into compliance.

 

Time to go fire up the sawzall and the grinder and lose 90 lbs!

[tacovini]

TJ and all,

It was an awesome event and I wish you were there. While this was the first year running with the dyno cert procedures in our ruleset it is our 2nd year using the cert at Nationals. I think we all learned some good things at Nats and in the interest of continuous improvement, we'll see some further clarifications so that there is no question to anyone...regardless of the region they run!

 

 

Now that Nationals is over, next order of business will be to kick off the rules silly season....so I wouldn't go cutting anything until the 2011 ruleset comes out. But now....time to unpack and get some sleep....36 hours on the road driving with 4 hours sleep makes me a dull boy.

 

Todd

[D Algozine]

I somewhat agree with TJ's overall message. But if the decision was changed in the drivers meeting, then that's it. So, the question is why was it changed, and will it be subject to change in the future?

 

I make the appropriate compensations necessary to make sure I'm under HP. So for me and I assume others, I give myself a margine for the x factor. Guys who run within a few hp of their limit are running on the edge, and are pushing the limits, and depending on how tight you run, you can get burned.

 

I realize the National race has been finalized and not looking to get involved with results, but rather I'm looking for some furhter clarification in the future, so I can better know what I can expect.

One question I have, what were the water temps during all of pulls? Were they within spec? How long were the cars sitting after the race? Really, how long is too long?

BTW, Water temp is subjective, because the sendor can be anywhere within the system. Is a water temp gauge manitory? What if my water temp doesn't get higher then 190? My point is, it can be manipulated. Add the variable of time at rest after the race, hood up or down, and if you are pushing the limits, you may find yourself out of spec. Guys like me aren't smart enough to work the system to the absolute max, so I just give myself a safe margine, because I wouldn't want to be DQ'd for being 1-2 hp over.

 

The real point is that AI is nearly entirely governed by the HP & TQ to wieght, so the dyno and all its subtle nuances are critical. I was delighted to see the dyno rules detailed for this season, but maybe futher clarification is necessary.

 

All this said, I realize how difficult this can be, so hats off to Todd and the rest of the volunteers. As a group we need to work together.

[firehawkclone]

From my reading of Todd's response, does the dyno have to be at a certain temp now? It wouldn't seem to be fair, if a dyno temp is making that big of a difference in the number's.

[nape]

One question I have, what were the water temps during all of pulls? Were they within spec? How long were the cars sitting after the race? Really, how long is too long?

 

There is no spec line in the dyno procedures for how long a car should sit. It should be ready to pass if it's 2 minutes or 2 hours. The only variable spelled out that applies to that situation is water temp. Run the car on the rollers, hood open, long enough to get it to 185* then start the pull.

 

Congratulations to everyone who ran at Nats, hope to see everyone next year at Mid-O!

[Racer91m]

For added info:

 

After dyno cert on the #59, the OBDII port, PCM connectors, and Restrictor plate were all sealed by NASA. Nothing could be tampered with (or was). All cars showed a similar offset in dyno numbers so there was clearly an issue with the dyno.

 

Here is my suggestion for the future (specifically at Championships where more is at stake):

 

On each day, run a control vehicle on the dyno in the morning, and in the evening to get a variance. This can be a rental car, but needs to be run consistently each time. If the control vehicle shows a variance, racecars need to be given a similar % variance.

 

Persoanlly, UI was carrying 60 extra pounds. I think it's crazy to have to account for a 1-15HP variance. 100-140# is a little too much.

 

-Dean

[Red Tornado]

Great update Todd and congrats to all.

 

As for dyno stuff..hey I got DQ'd for 3 rwhp on 1 run with last of three 10 below in 2007 nationals before rule rewrite as my car sat for 2 hrs and cooled. Hell the guy stuck the super fan in front of my air cleaner for those who remeber. It sucked!!

I for one think way Todd handled it was fair and honestly correct.

 

I think GPS in cars is the key and honestly saves our cars from being beaten to death on dyno's. It's never gonna be perfect guys.

 

Bottom line is you need some margin for error and GPS and beta test sound good ideas at nationals.

 

Honestly 1-3rwhp over do you really see. I have had guys pull me 5-7 cars down a straight and thats what needs to be checked is everyone GPS hookup. Trust me that ain't 5rwhp over it's more like 15-20 and that was actually shown on a dyno test at one event this year..

 

Get some rest Todd it's well deserved I am sure.

[Tommy55]

We really need to stick by the rules. If you are running that close to the numbers, you take the chance of missing the numbers on the dyno. I worked on the dyno all week and did not see any variances with it. I always leave myself room on numbers just in case. If you want to take the chance of running closer you take that chance. There was nothing wrong with the dyno. My numbers were very consistent. We need to stick with the rules. Hood off means hood off. Fail means fail. Others had to play by the rules. If i had known there was a chance that 1st thru 3rd had the possibility of getting dq'd, the outcome on my part would have been totally different. To push at the end of the race to get on the podium, spin out, and finish 6th for no reason is a bonehead move on my part. A rookie lesson well learned and see you in 2011 Mid Ohio

[TFG]

We really need to stick by the rules. If you are running that close to the numbers, you take the chance of missing the numbers on the dyno. I worked on the dyno all week and did not see any variances with it. I always leave myself room on numbers just in case. If you want to take the chance of running closer you take that chance. There was nothing wrong with the dyno. My numbers were very consistent. We need to stick with the rules. Hood off means hood off. Fail means fail. Others had to play by the rules. If i had known there was a chance that 1st thru 3rd had the possibility of getting dq'd, the outcome on my part would have been totally different. To push at the end of the race to get on the podium, spin out, and finish 6th for no reason is a bonehead move on my part. A rookie lesson well learned and see you in 2011 Mid Ohio

 

I agree. This doesn't sound like a very legit operation in my opinion. If there was any discrepancies at the dyno, we're talking about the national championships here, I don't understand the rush to get home. Not fair to everyone else involved.

[bpanther]

If there was any discrepancies at the dyno, we're talking about the national championships here, I don't understand the rush to get home. Not fair to everyone else involved.

 

AI will be moving to Saturday main races in 2011....

[QUASAR]

Thoughts-

 

1. Why would anything listed in the rules need to be changed/altered at the event? Let alone national championships? You spend time and money preparing your car to the rule book so that when you get there its ready and compliant. There should never be a need to recalibrate your setup because something in the rules was modified that day. This sets a bad precident. I'd like to know more about why this was done.

 

2. Trying to account for variances in weather, dyno operation, car condition (heat soak/oil temps etc) is too difficult. We would have to write a 10 page standard on how to handle it so that we covered every possible condition. How do you avoid that? PASS/FAIL. Leave yourself a margin that allows for possible variance. How much you are willing to push it is up to the racer - that is how 99% of us operate.

[nape]

John for President.

[firehawkclone]

I don't recall anything in the meeting about a Chang in the way a dyno run would be ran. There was however alot of discussion after the meeting. Others at the meeting will have to chime in.

[Tommy55]

was I at the meeting

[mustcone347]

Looks like and smells like the SCCA then it must be the SCCA. Just a bunch of preferential treatment and BS to make the rules fit the situation.

Please dont let NASA go down this road.

 

Has the success of NASA really steered it down this path? I can totally understand the hard feeling by some folks. And I understand how hard it is for organizers to wade through the aftermath, but come on maybe you should have a third party independent dyno tester at the event acting as judge jury and hangman. Test your cars upon arrival and test after the race if there is a deviation and you are over your out. No do overs no reruns if you fail you fail.

 

this is exactly why I do not participate AI to much BS

 

hopefully you will use this as an opportunity to fix your problems during the off season.

[UBR]

Looks like and smells like the SCCA then it must be the SCCA. Just a bunch of preferential treatment and BS to make the rules fit the situation.

I really don't think any of the rules variances were preferential treatment. I think they were a result of not being familiar with the exact languange in the CCR and AI Rules.

There was an issue in AI where "the intent" of the rule was being inforced (rule being interpreted, thus changed). When pushed, it became apparent that leadership was not aware of the exact language in the rule. When it was read to them, it was clear and the rule change being imposed under "intent" was clearly wrong. The announced change was recinded, but not before sereval teams made significant alterations to their cars.

I was present when a car in a non-AI series was being "Nationals teched". A suggestion was made by the series director to change something. When questioned about the change and if the car was "legal" as is, the director said, "I'm not sure. It's something like that."

 

In reading the dyno procedure that Todd described after the race, this sounds like another example of not knowing the exact language in the rules (hood up vs down) I wasn't at the drivers meeting, but even if this change was announced, it is not the place to be making changes at a national event.

 

We build and prep our cars to the rule set, as written, before coming across the country. The rules should not be altered AT the event. And the folks running the event should know the rules better than the racers.

 

j

Edited September 23, 2010 by Guest

[GEORGEWINKLER]

The dyno problem was not the only grey area at tech this year!.

 

On thursday when I went thru American Iron tech I was told I had to cut 2" off my front spoiler and my ride height was too low?

They don't have a proper way to measure ride height on all the different models and the rule book is not clear.Also the rule was changed for AI only at this race only to check height with driver? When I was setting my ride height in tech I had 3 different officials say to me you don't need to raise it we check it without driver?

My response was please tell Todd that.I have no problem with the rules but don't change or make up different rules for the Championship race.

The next day I was then told that so many people complained about the rule change for the front spliiter that it would be retracted and we could run as we have all year.

Needless to say I ruined a $400.00 splitter for nothing.

 

I will agree with Todd's decision with the dyno pulls after the race!Those cars sat along time before being put on the dyno and that can effect the HP out come dramaticly.

 

George

[D Algozine]

I will agree with Todd's decision with the dyno pulls after the race!Those cars sat along time before being put on the dyno and that can effect the HP out come dramaticly.

 

George

 

It shouldn't matter if the cars set there over night. According to the AI dyno proceedure, the car is brought up to specified water temperatures. See the proceedure listed below.

So, if racers decide to base thier HP/TQ numbers on a heat soaked engine, then they have decided to be aggressive, and may find that they have cut it too close.

I still haven't heard what the temps were for all the dyno pulls.

 

There is only one thing that could be worse for the series then having the top three finishes of the National race DQ'd, and it's this controversy that linges on, which has people questioning the results and proceedures.

 

AI/CMC Dynamometer Inspection Procedures

1. Only dyno runs on DynoJet brand dynamometers are acceptable.

2. One dyno report may be performed and used for the entire season provided that:

a. It is performed after the last event of the prior season and before the first race entered

for the season.

b. No performance modifications are made to the car.

3. All dyno readings must be corrected to SAE J1349 Rev JUN90 (29.23 in/hg, 77F, zero

humidity) and the dyno’s smoothing function must be set to 5

4. Car must be in “ready to race” configuration with regards to engine and drivetrain.

a. American Iron Class: All engine or drivetrain components that are adjustable and

affect power (carb jets, timing, etc.) must be explicitly allowed by the vehicle’s class

rules, must be written down in section 1 - 6 of the inspection sheet, and must match at

all times.

b. Camaro Mustang Challenge Class: All engine or drivetrain components that are not

stock and affect power or are adjustable (restrictors, air intakes, timing, etc.) must be

explicitly allowed by the vehicle’s class rules, must be written down in section 1 - 6

of the inspection sheet, and must match at all times.

5. Rear tires must be set to 30psi.

6. Hood shall be open during dyno test runs.

7. Electric engine fans and or external cooling fans may be used.

8. Dyno pulls will be made in 4th gear or at a 1:1 ratio.

9. Altitude of the dyno shop must be recorded. Dyno runs made at locations with elevation

greater than 1,500 feet higher than the track will not count as being valid at that track. Class

Officials may decide to waive this requirement for certain circumstances. CHECK WITH

YOUR LOCAL CLASS DIRECTOR ahead of time.

10. Three consecutive runs shall be made under full power. The RPM range shall be consistent

for all three runs. Starting RPM shall be no higher than 2000. Ending RPM shall be clearly

beyond max horsepower.

11. The first run shall be made with water temperature at 185F. The next run shall be with water

temperature at 195F, and the last run shall be made with temperature at 205F.

12. The peak horsepower and torque of each run will be noted on the inspection sheet.

13. The average of the three consecutive runs will be calculated and noted on the inspection

sheet. This average horsepower and torque number is what must be used to determine the

vehicle’s required minimum weight, using the car’s specific class weight rules.

14. One dyno certification may be valid for an entire race season as long as no performance

modifications are made to the car.

[05 Ross]

Rule 8.2 Inspection and testing, paragraph 3 states, " All American Iron series competitors have the option to be present for official chassis dynomometer testing ", I urge you guys to do this in the future. As for the water temperature of the cars, we can only trust in the honesty and integrity of the dyno operater for this as he is the only one that knows.

 

Ross Murray AI 74

[Cmy70go]

It "sounds" to me that the dyno operator pushed the "read" button before all things we up to temp. If that's so then the operator should be informed of the rule set. If the "read" button was not pushed until the car's were up to temp, Then it's no different than when you take your car to a local shop for a baseline pull. I personally like the GPS thing. It seems simple and more "true" for the fact that it will give real world HP/ TQ data for a collective session not just 3 pulls. Ever wonder if any one has a "magic" button hidden in their car?. A GPS unit would show that up. This also allows us to know if a dyno will be at an event or not, It's always on the car, The tech guys can look at it as we roll through. No worries about the car blowing up on the dyno at the hands of an operator. I know that it will be an expense to own a GPS unit but we're already paying for a dyno to show up, regardless if it does or not.

[gbrown8439]

From my reading of Todd's response, does the dyno have to be at a certain temp now? It wouldn't seem to be fair, if a dyno temp is making that big of a difference in the number's.

 

Guys, Todd mentioned the main issue in his first post but I feel the need (stupid I know) to add some further explanation.

 

 

 

Any time I put a car on the dyno that has been there before and it shows higher numbers than it did the first time I always take a minute to double check that everything on my end is correct. There is nothing that I can adjust and nothing other than the type of correction factor that I can change but I always want to make sure that if someone is going to get a DQ it's legitimate. There were people through the week that dyno'd over their number and insisted that the dyno had to be wrong. In every case I was able to look at cars that had been on the dyno before and after the car in question and see that everyone but the car in question was spot on their number.

 

 

 

When the AI cars came to me they were the last cars of the day and my guys had started packing things up that we didn't need including the canopy covering the dyno and its computer.

 

Ross’s car was first and it showed more power than it did the night before. At the time I didn't think much about it because it looked like a cleaner graph so I assumed he had made some changes.

 

Deans car was next and it also showed a higher number than it had the day before.

 

It wasn't until we put Daves car on and it showed high also that I caught the issue.

 

 

 

When we took the canopy down it allowed the sun to shine directly on the temperature sensor for the dyno. That sensor is one of the tools that the dyno uses to calculate the correction factor. Because the sun was shining directly on the sensor it was reading an artificially high temperature and therefore using a higher correction factor causing all 3 AI cars to show a higher power number than they should.

 

 

 

This is 100% our fault. We learned from it and nothing like this will ever happen again.

 

 

 

Please give Todd and the racers a break, they did nothing wrong IMO.

[Red Tornado]

Always nice to not be there and hear all this afterwords.

 

Cry me a river guys at VIR one of the competitors was like more than 10rwhp over on average in CMC

We all kept quite and sucked it up but it was bs and was totally a local guy alsobut guess they don't usually have a dyno. Also drama in our AI class with eve getting on the dyno etc..

(edited this as realized I didn't write it all to flow properly after rereading).

 

Point is officials make a call and we all move on. Todd's call seemed pretty dead on and I think it was really stand upish and transparent for him to share all of that when he didn't have to.

 

Still doesn't take away the fact that I had a blast watching the race!!!

Edited September 24, 2010 by Guest