2011 Rules Silly Season - Closed

[Tommy55]

Very well said and very true. SEAT TIME SEAT TIME SEAT TIME

[quick35th]

Very well said and very true. I do believe in the very facts that you pointed out which has been my soul motivation for running AI in the very car that I do. I should have put in my original post that I we looking at things in other people's perspectives outside of the sport looking in. That would have made more sense.

 

Like you T J, I am running stock upper and lower front controlling arms (Ford was nice and gave the MN12's front SLA from the factory) drop in Koni's that I would love to have re valved by True Choice, stock drive shaft, stock rear IRS with a different gear in it. My entire suspension is pretty much stock with the exception if cut springs, koni's and polly bushings, I even am running stock sway bars! The car has tons of grip even on tires that are probably older then 2005. My spoiler I made using supplies I bought from Home Depot, cost me $100 total. I love when people ask me why a T-Bird it brings a smile to my face.

 

Shane

[AJ Hartman]

Now I know that I am a very small fish in the sea but I like to think that I represent all the other small fish in the big sea that want to come play in American Iron. I represent the person that does not have big money in their car or the means to put big money in their car, the person that runs on used tires but can still be competitive, the person that doesn't own his or her own business or high up on the corporate food chain, I am your average every day American Joe.

 

My idea is different, might be radical to some, but I will explain how I think the club could benefit from it.

 

In a nut shell my idea is kind of like an old ALMS series rule, give the privateer a little advantage over the manufacture backed teams. Now I know there is no real factory backed teams in AI, we are all privateers however I believe there is a group of people out there that want to get into AI but fall somewhere between AI and CMC and don't have the budget to build a full on AI car. I guess what I am trying to say is I think it would be fun to give people that want to run AI with cars that are not prepared to the same levels as the tops dogs in class (full on front and rear racing suspensions, areo etc) a little more of sporting chance. Maybe give them a little HP advantage but keep the same weight. I just feel by making that change would open up the AI door to a new group of people and quite possibly our car counts per event could increase. I know there are a ton of people out there that are deterred by the thought of building a car on a budget that cant even be street driven anymore just to never be competitive against someone with a bigger wallet. Some will say build a car for CMC instead, however CMC is for Camaros, mustangs, and firebirds, that leaves A LOT of other cars that fit the definition of eligible AI cars out of the lower ranks.

 

So here's how it would fit:

 

---------->a) Willl decrease series cost because… Cost of building an AI race car would be cheaper.

---------->b) Will increase series growth because… More cars in AI means more money for NASA in entrance fees both in yearly membership, HPDE classes and AI entry fees.

---------->c) Will improve competition because… More cars participating in events.

 

Idk it was just a cool new idea that popped in my head. Maybe the pain caused by my wisdom teeth coming in is clouding my judgment lol.

 

Shane

 

I am in your shoes as far as budget. just turned 25 and bought a house by myself. but I couldn't disagree with you more. It would increase series cost because someone coming into AI will have to buy more parts to make their car quicker than the people that have already been in the series. and then where do you draw the point where an rookie would have to de-tune his car the the rules everyone else is using. and this would make those nice new heads and cam you put on your car useless. it will not increase series growth cause the people already in the series will get pissed with the politics allowing rookies to be overly competitive. Its a toss up weather or not it would improve competition. rules need to be set and firm for everyone. just playing devils advocate and not trying to dismiss your opinion, but thats how I see it.

[Red Tornado]

Unlimited rim size within confines of track width rules.

 

Many folks coming from other series have to buy other sets of rims and the 275 tire size is really the performance limit anyway.

 

 

1. Allows folks a wider range of used and aftermarket rims.

2. Allows even more ease of folks coming over from Grand Am and other series which would increase participation.

3. Allows even more cars with possible lower costs.

 

Now I know everyone will say hell now I have to upsize rims but really will that help at all and if your near track width max that is more relevant as larger rims may mean more weight.

 

Just trying to open us to even more easy drop ins from other series.

[nape]

Just trying to open us to even more easy drop ins from other series.

 

If they can afford a Grand Am car/afford to run GA, they can afford an $800 set of wheels to meet the 9.5" wide rule. My $.02.

 

If your rule passes, we'll see 275s stretched onto 11" wheels and the Mustang guys will have spend minimum $1000 for a couple sets to get up to the new level. I'd do it. Set of $300-400 Corvette wheels to put more tire on the ground? Sold.

 

AI will look like a German car tuner mag. Stretched and Hella Flush, dawg.

[robbodleimages]

sounds like you are describing dean martin. if you were describing me, then you would know that buying those wheels would be an issue.

 

by the way....do you go to the track with four tires only? you carry no spares and no rains?

 

anyway...its not a big deal. i'll race my stuff in AI or something else. i am not a championship/race contender. i am just field filler. there for the fun. i am just saying that you shouldn't paint with such a broad brush

Edited October 11, 2010 by Guest

[sundialracing]

A set of 18x9.5's for $800.00?? I know this was discussed somewhere else but I'm too lazy to look for it.

 

I'm all for 18x10 302R wheels, awesome wheel at an awesome price.

[nape]

sounds like you are describing dean martin. if you were describing me, then you would know that buying those wheels would be an issue.

 

by the way....do you go to the track with four tires only? you carry no spares and no rains?

 

anyway...its not a big deal. i'll race my stuff in AI or something else. i am not a championship/race contender. i am just field filler. there for the fun. i am just saying that you shouldn't paint with such a broad brush

 

Up until the 2009 season, I did only have one set of usable tires at a time. Scuffs that I bought with a couple grooves left. Ran them rain, shine, or locusts. If you're just a field filler and just there for fun, buy a set of used, heavy 18 x 9.5" wheels, slap some used Toyos on, and come join the fun with the rest of us low-buckers. I've run mis-matched wheels, bent wheels, tires with cord showing, and that's trying to run up front!

 

A set of 18x9.5's for $800.00?? I know this was discussed somewhere else but I'm too lazy to look for it.

 

3rd hit in Google: http://www.blueovalindustries.com/wh1345.html?___store=default

 

That set would be $900, my guess was $100 short. Not saying they're a great wheel, but they fit the letter of the rule. Finding a used set would likely make them cheaper.

 

If you guys want 10" wide so you can find some cheap, lightweight wheels, make it 10.5" wide so I can find some curbed Corvette C5 Z06 rear wheels.

[stevepoe]

here TJ I know your a gm guy so you don't do much searching for ford wheels.

 

http://www.buyfordracing.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=755cPath=89

[Walther]

This thread has been a very interesting read for me. I am trying to censor my comments because not only am I new to this series, but I am still months away from converting my SCCA AS to NASA AIX. I’ll try to keep this short-

 

SCCA AS- You can spend $3500.00 (when you consider bell housing, shifter, driveshaft, etc.) to convert your car to a Tex Racing T10, but you cannot upgrade your T5 with a $1300.00 G-Force gear set. You have to run a “spec” Performer RPM intake, but you can spend $1400.00 to ship it off to Wilson Manifold for a full prep port job. You have to run stock LCA’s, but guys spend upwards of $300.00 dollars to modify them with mono-ball bushings, etc., when you can get aftermarket LCA’s for under $200. Rules limit rim sizes to 16x8, which are getting harder and harder to find. My last set of four cost over $700.00. (I just bought a full set of 17x10.5’s for under $500.00) In AS, top level national guys spin their motors over 8000 rpm, make 425+ rwhp, and the motors last less than half a season. The cars must run basically stock, strut suspension- so it is brutal on the tires. One national level guy I know personally, runs a set of Hoosiers for TWO heat cycles and them discards them. I could go on and on.

 

There are two tiers of AS racing- National and Regional. (same rules) I ran against National level guys at Sebring and was faster in the (tight) back section, having to feather the throttle to keep from hitting them. I would get off of turn #16 better, leading onto the long back stretch less than a car length behind in their draft, and they would pull away by 6-7 car lengths before #17. (I have video to prove it) So I called several of the engine builders they use and I got quotes ranging from $16,000 and $23,000 dollars….for a wet sump motor with a flat-tappet cam. I asked my engine builder/machinist (who built motors for Nemechek and Ruddiman when they were local racers) if he could make 425 rwhp, and he stated “not without cheating”. So in the end- If you manage to podium at the run-offs, your car is impounded and you are required to pull your motor and tear it down to the crank. If you pass inspection, you get a $10.00 plaque, your picture in a magazine, and carry your motor off in buckets. Last year, the on-track winner was DQ’d for suspicious scratch marks on the base plate of his carb.

 

So to my point, and in my opinion; Rules can always be improved, but no set of rules is going to completely level a field of race cars. Those who put in the hours (in the shop and on the track) and open their wallets, stand a better chance of winning. That’s racing. But if you have issues with NASA rules for AI/AIX, I challenge you to flip through the SCCA rules for American Sedan. I left SCCA American Sedan because of the inane and archaic rules. I opted for the AI Series because the rules make more sense.

 

My .02,

Mark

[robbodleimages]

i think most of us are well aware of the debacle that AS has become.

[Sidney]

TJ,

 

Lighten up. You pounded the Rehagen Camp this past weekend with a P.O.S. Third Gen Firebird! Let them run whatever set of rims they want...you'll just get on ebay and find some Grand Am/IMSA/Formula 1 cast offs and beat them anyway.

 

Sidney

[Walther]

i think most of us are well aware of the debacle that AS has become.

 

Whew. Glad to know it wasn't just me!!! I am honestly thrilled to be building an AIX car. I understand that I'll probably get my *** handed to me my first few years, but it'll be in a car that I built, under rules that are simply more logical (to me).

 

Here it is, so far...

[TurboShortBus]

Hey Mark...is your car too far along to be an AI car, rather than AIX? We have a few AI cars down here, but nobody in AIX (unless Pantas shows up to run CMC lap times in his AIX car).

 

Mark

[Walther]

Hey Mark...is your car too far along to be an AI car, rather than AIX? We have a few AI cars down here, but nobody in AIX (unless Pantas shows up to run CMC lap times in his AIX car).

 

Mark

 

Probably. I've constructed a custom K-member and SLA, got 3" wide body fenders, 17x10.5 wheels, BFG R1's, etc. I'm still a LONG way off...but I retire from the Sheriff's Office in January, and momma says I can use some of the money to finish the car. (LOOOOVE that woman!!) And...We'll be moving to NC in a few years, and it looks like the AIX participation is pretty good up there. However, I may have talked my buddy into switching over to to AI. All he would have to do is ditch the Hoosiers and Dyno the car. But at his power level vs. weight, I bet he's real close.

 

I PM'd my number. Please give me call sometime. I'd like to pick your brain!

 

Mark

 

Oops!! I've high-jacked this thread, haven't I?

[Al F.]

Oh man, careful posting pictures. Next thing you know people will be making useful comments like is maple or oak better for a strut tower bar and is your home brew k-member made of the same wood...

[Walther]

Oh man, careful posting pictures. Next thing you know people will be making useful comments like is maple or oak better for a strut tower bar and is your home brew k-member made of the same wood...

 

I'm in the south. The k-member is Pecan, and the a-arms are Cypress. My beloved wife is an industrial safety engineer with a local utility company. She comes walks through the garage and sees the (old AS) engine supported by plywood and a 2x6 and cringes. But that's another thing I love about this. I'm building a car in a two car garage in a gated community. I share the garage with Girl Scout camping equipment and have to unplug the dryer to plug in my welder or compressor. But despite those obstacles, I've received complements on how professional my fabrication looks. And I'll be competing against guys who are associated with racing as a profession. I read where one guy is an engineer with a Nascar team. What a personal challenge. I love it.

[sundialracing]

here TJ I know your a gm guy so you don't do much searching for ford wheels.

 

http://www.buyfordracing.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=755cPath=89

 

Those things are soooooooooo heavy........

[Al F.]

I'm in the south. The k-member is Pecan, and the a-arms are Cypress.

Brilliant You've found a home

[AJ Hartman]

so is this thread dead. no crazy RCR's like last winter? or is everyone waiting till January and then get mad that they are taking forever to come out? haha

[robbodleimages]

i dont see any reason to change anything and i think this thread basically backs that up.

[DHarsay]

I say there's a lot of room for clarification in the rules as they are currently worded and organized.

[Grizlbits]

I say there's a lot of room for clarification in the rules as they are currently worded and organized.

 

I was wondering if you could be more vauge? If you have a suggestion, submit it. If you have a constructive clear reasoning for a change state it or submit it.

[tacovini]

Folks...I'm on the road for work these days and plan to review all the posts and formal RCRs at night in the hotel room.

 

I will post a summary when I'm able however there aren't that many as far as I can see.

 

 

Lots of great stuff going on behind the scenes and I can't wait to work/announce the 2011 plans with our leadership team of regional directors...as well as work toward our long term series goals.

 

Stay tuned...

 

Todd

[DHarsay]

I say there's a lot of room for clarification in the rules as they are currently worded and organized.

 

I was wondering if you could be more vauge? If you have a suggestion, submit it. If you have a constructive clear reasoning for a change state it or submit it.

 

Sorry, I figured that this was a small enough group we're familiar with recent such discussions... all matters contained within were deferred by Todd to the next rulemaking season (now) so I'm just giving my perspective for improving the rules clarification another nudge.

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