Poll: Rule Change; HP/TQ and Min weight on all cars

[scottbm3]

I would vote yes for the sticker.

 

I would vote no for the minimum weight.

 

When I first read the post I voted "YES". I didn't comprehend the minimum weight part......

 

Damon in STL

Damon,

 

Why not the minimum weight. Its just your HP X the lowest ratio number for whichever GTS class you're running ? We already have them in the MW/GL region. Its what tech uses when we go to scales.

 

-Scott B.

 

Sometimes I like to just randomly disagree with stuff.....keeps everyone on their toes....

 

Damon

 

p.s. My game plan for next year is to actively de-tune to maximize power to weight. I have a plasma cutter and keep finding things to cut off....my minimum weight may vary from race to race. At the end of the day if a car is put on the dyno....it's weight must fall within the power to weight rules for the class the car is running.

 

First it must meet the minimum weight of your declared dyno sheet. Remember if you fail the scales you're automatically Dq'd regardless of your HP.

 

 

-Scott B.

[Damon in STL]

First it must meet the minimum weight of your declared dyno sheet. Remember if you fail the scales you're automatically Dq'd regardless of your HP.

 

 

-Scott B.

 

Good point! .....I should finish my re-build before the first race!

 

Here's an odd question. What if a car has multiple tunes which may allow it to theoretically run in two different GTS classes, would the requirement be for there to be a dyno sheet and declared weight for each possible class? Then, when registering for the race class, the dyno sheet and weight is declared with the race director? I'm curious to how this works.....having seen some of the GTS5 cars go down to GTS4.

 

Damon in STL

[JSG1901]

Good point! .....I should finish my re-build before the first race!

 

Here's an odd question. What if a car has multiple tunes which may allow it to theoretically run in two different GTS classes, would the requirement be for there to be a dyno sheet and declared weight for each possible class? Then, when registering for the race class, the dyno sheet and weight is declared with the race director? I'm curious to how this works.....having seen some of the GTS5 cars go down to GTS4.

 

Damon in STL

Here's how we handle it:

 

If you have multiple tunes or engine maps, you need to provide me with dyno sheets for each along with the instructions for how to determine which one you're using and what it is you have to do to change between them.

 

I have one example in our group who has two engine maps he can choose between, both of which put him in the same class but with slightly different weight requirements. One makes a little more power, one uses a bit less gas and is slightly easier on the motor. Since this driver can switch between the maps from the driver's seat, he has to use the higher of the two dyno sheets to calculated his minimum weight because it's always possible he will change to that map.

 

If it is sufficiently difficult to switch between settings, I would agree to letting you choose the map to use (that is, not force you to use the highest of your options) but would ask that you stick to it for at least the day and preferably for the entire weekend. There is plenty of paperwork for all the race-management people to be doing over the course of the weekend without having to chase around one racer's engine mapping choix de la session.

[John Graber]

First it must meet the minimum weight of your declared dyno sheet. Remember if you fail the scales you're automatically Dq'd regardless of your HP.

I do not believe this is accurate. I believe if you do not make weight you then do not get the 4HP foregiveness on the dyno. Now, if there is no dyno.........I don't know. Perhaps the min weight should be a definitive pass/fail number if there is no dyno present.

[scottbm3]

First it must meet the minimum weight of your declared dyno sheet. Remember if you fail the scales you're automatically Dq'd regardless of your HP.

I do not believe this is accurate. I believe if you do not make weight you then do not get the 4HP foregiveness on the dyno. Now, if there is no dyno.........I don't know. Perhaps the min weight should be a definitive pass/fail number if there is no dyno present.

 

I was actually reading the CCR...OOPS ! Though the GTS rule about 4HP foregiveness is for getting dyno'd @ the event for compliance. What about your question of what do we do when there's no Dyno. I would think the minimum weight declared would have to be meet as that's all there's to go by.. Maybe we can get a clarification from someone ?

 

-Scott B.

[KTL]

I would think the minimum weight declared would have to be met as that's all there's to go by.. Maybe we can get a clarification from someone ?

 

-Scott B.

 

I would agree that if no dyno then weight is the only thing that governs. If you miss weight (that is calculated from your dyno sheet), you're DQ'd. Otherwise there's nothing else to regulate the car, other than my gripe that I think your car accelerates way too fast you cheater!

 

But since the current ruleset is dyno-based, w/out on-site dyno should there be an (%) allowance amount for being under weight? Only reason I ask that is because someone could argue, yeah, i'm a bit under weight but what if my car's down on power? I guess that's moot because since there's no dyno present to confirm, too bad. It's the competitor's responsibility to ensure compliance is met, period? You should meet minimum weight because the flip side to that argument is what if your car is producing more power than your dyno sheet indicates? We're not able to check that circumstance either! Then the sealed car thing comes into play and ugh here we go ....

 

Time to make it a spec series? KIDDING!!!

[cstreit911]

Scott,

 

That's correct. If you don't meet your posted minimum weight, dyno or no dyno, you're DQ'd.

 

If you DO meet minimum weight, you are allowed the dyno variance of 4HP.

 

EX my actual min weight is 2032# at 248 HP. If I come in at 2040# and the dyno reads 251 I would be allowed the 4 HP variance. If I come in at 2031# it doesn't matter if the car dyno's at 245, I'm still DQ'D.

[Damon in STL]

Scott,

 

That's correct. If you don't meet your posted minimum weight, dyno or no dyno, you're DQ'd.

 

If you DO meet minimum weight, you are allowed the dyno variance of 4HP.

 

EX my actual min weight is 2032# at 248 HP. If I come in at 2040# and the dyno reads 251 I would be allowed the 4 HP variance. If I come in at 2031# it doesn't matter if the car dyno's at 245, I'm still DQ'D.

 

Chris,

 

One of the things I've kicked around in the back of my head (and yes sometimes it hurts....) is to go to a turbo setup. The thought is to before each race see how many cars were in both GTS2 and GTS3 and then set the boost level for the proper ratio for the class. This all may be a moot point if the GTS numbers in the Midwest (and elsewhere) continue to climb....which I hope is the case! I'll most likely always be a part time racer since time is not my friend right now. So, when I do race I want two things.....other cars and competition! Hopefully the GTS numbers will be such that I can pick a class and maximize for that class.

 

So, the key is to reach the lowest weight in the build and then declare that weight....and then have a tune for GTS2 and a tune for GTS3 (more than likely a wastegate and software adjustment).

 

Damon in STL