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AI Build What to Build????


Tommy55

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I am wanting to either sell 95 Firebird or keep and use for parts on new 01-02 body. I really want to stay with GM, but we really have no manufacturer support. On the flip side, we need a GM on the Podium. So here is my dilemma.... Build a 4th Gen Firebird or a 5th Gen Camaro. I would like Brian Groth to chime in if he can, what is available for aftermarket 5th gen parts? How competitive are the 5th gens in other classes? How light can we get them? What about Aero? Is anyone testing Aero on the 5th gens and are there aftermarket parts being made. Can i get a 5th gen built under 30k?

 

Any help would be great as we need a mustang killer in AI (no offense mustang boys)

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Kent in our region built a really nice gto. The problem he had was he had to make all his own parts. I would like to stay away from that. I like to use as many ready available parts as i can and let them do the engineering

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I like to use as many ready available parts as i can and let them do the engineering

 

I'm a long time Chevy man, but this is why I choose to build a mustang.

 

John

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You might also talk to Jordan Musser of Momentum Motorsports here in Texas. They're running a pair of 5th gens in the Continental series and are designing / selling parts for them. They were doing some testing at our last race and I got to chat with him a bit....nice guy. Very willing to share information and seemed genuinely interested in helping us amateurs.

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Any help would be great as we need a mustang killer in AI (no offense mustang boys)

 

I guess we need to build Mustangs then. This is the new Mustang Challenge series, right?

 

I'm having the same heartburn Tommy...

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Can i get a 5th gen built under 30k?

 

I don't think that's possible at this point. Maybe in a few years when the price drops on used cars.

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I also am a total GM guy and have owned and raced every gen of camaro/firebird either at the dragstrip or road racing.

 

Problem is no support, no development,no one carries any parts, etc..

 

Would have loved to run a new camaro but after seeing teething pains and issues in grandam it ran me away.

 

Thus why the 2011 mustang gt is being built.

 

Sorry but GM where the hell are you??

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I would be interested in knowing what the price difference is between the race ready Camaro and the race ready Mustang.Time to start doing some research

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Price was high if I recall like around $130k but that was in grandam trim. Car still weighed alot and had a fair amount of growing pains issue.

Also unlike my 3rd and 4th gen these cars start off with all the wrong stuff it seems and out of the box would get killed by a mustang.

 

My 2011 GT will likely be under $70k for everything all in the best. Big difference.

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Riley Camaro is ~$180K. After working with one in Grand Am, I wouldn't go near a 5th gen. Too much work, too much development to be done.

 

Tommy-- What's the difference between a '95 and an '02?

 

I don't see why you would want to take everything that you've learned with your current car and start from stratch with something else. What you have is already proven to be competitive, wouldn't your $ be better spent on getting it from "top 5" to "out front"?

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Kent in our region built a really nice gto. The problem he had was he had to make all his own parts. I would like to stay away from that. I like to use as many ready available parts as i can and let them do the engineering

 

They raced the Holden Monaro in Australia for years, so I would assume there is tons of stuff available there for the GTO.

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Maybe I can give you some insite. I have worked with Brian for the past 6 years on his mustangs and built his 5th gen camaro. If 30K is your budget than stick with the 4th gen.

The 5th gen is to big and to heavy. The Irs is to heavy (450 lbs) I got the chassis just under 1K lbs. with alot of cutting. We will be working on aero this winter and possible an SLA front.

There are not alot of parts but some are working on it but most are driven for street performance and drag racing. There is no LSD yet! Axles are a problem!! The TR6060 is to heavy and wrong gear ratio's. They finally started making gears but are way to expensive.

You could get the weight down around 3200 with driver but it will be expensive. Get ride of the irs and run a straight axle and that would save some pounds also. The fourth gen is lighter more aero and just as much a pain to work on as the 5th gen. Still need to pull motor out the bottom but with a lift no problem. If I were to build a ls motor I would use the ls3 block 3.25 stroke, long rod, etc. Get rid of the 6 sp and stay with the 5.

 

If you have any questions on the 5th gen feel free to call me 507-824-2119

 

Dave

 

carriagehousecustoms.com

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No question in my mind: 4th gen trumps a 5th gen in cost and available knowledge. 4th gen Vs S197 is a harder question. My guess is it'll be easier to build an S197 but it'll be much more expensive.

 

The LS1 and T56 are known quantities. There may not be many resources for road racing 4th gen suspension, but those that are there are very good. The LAW boys already know all the tricks to the chassis regarding cages. Its easy to get the car to weight, and enjoys good dimensions and good aero. I would build an early 4th gen firebird with an LS1.

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Riley Camaro is ~$180K. After working with one in Grand Am, I wouldn't go near a 5th gen. Too much work, too much development to be done.

 

Tommy-- What's the difference between a '95 and an '02?

 

I don't see why you would want to take everything that you've learned with your current car and start from stratch with something else. What you have is already proven to be competitive, wouldn't your $ be better spent on getting it from "top 5" to "out front"?

 

Very true. Should stay with my platform. There is really no difference between the 95 and the 02 except front clip and other small details. Mine is a 95 with newer front clip. It is just very frustrating to see the new mustangs come in and spank us again. Maybe building a fresh 4th gen this winter will help. My car has been raced it's whole life. The last 6 years by me in AI. Everything but the engine and transmission are six years old. The engine and trans are 3 years old with no problems. I love the GM reliability and platform. I am just sick of getting beat by MUSTURDS!!!!!!!!

 

I will figure it out. I saw some stuff on Wheelers car that i liked. There is still some stuff i can change to try and get it on the podium.

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Very true. Should stay with my platform. There is really no difference between the 95 and the 02 except front clip and other small details. Mine is a 95 with newer front clip. It is just very frustrating to see the new mustangs come in and spank us again.

 

That's what I would do, Tommy. Keep tweaking the setup and doing some R&D to make it faster and you'll be right there. I wouldn't even start with a new car unless there are things you really don't like about yours. Whatever you would spend building a new car could freshen up a lot of parts and buy a lot of upgrades.

 

I won't make predictions yet, but I have a feeling everyone will see something but a '05+ Mustang on the top step of the podium next year.

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Very true. Should stay with my platform. There is really no difference between the 95 and the 02 except front clip and other small details. Mine is a 95 with newer front clip. It is just very frustrating to see the new mustangs come in and spank us again.

 

That's what I would do, Tommy. Keep tweaking the setup and doing some R&D to make it faster and you'll be right there. I wouldn't even start with a new car unless there are things you really don't like about yours. Whatever you would spend building a new car could freshen up a lot of parts and buy a lot of upgrades.

 

I won't make predictions yet, but I have a feeling everyone will see something but a '05+ Mustang on the top step of the podium next year.

 

TJ is right on. Freshen up and adjust. Dodge one or two bad breaks and you already could have been on the steps, maybe even the tall step.

 

TJ, what color car do you see on the podium in 2011? Is it ghostly, or patriotic, or maybe the color of money ?? Maybe there are no horses on the steps in 2011

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Tommy,

WTF are you doin up so late?????

Go get that WS6 and build a new 4th Gen.

BTW, I'll trade you my Wilwoods for the stock 4th Gen front suspension...

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