2011 Rules Update & Leadership Team meeting minutes

[UBR]

I have no proof? He had a notched frame, many people saw this and it us against the rules!

I call BS on this... again (same garbage that went on for weeks last year). As Mark said, we were garaged 10 ft away from Pat and the S&S guys. I helped scale the car before Pat arrived. Sat in it for more than 30 minutes. Spent a lot of time looking at the entire front end set up. I should have taken pictures of it. No "frame rails" were notched. The car had a very nice SLA setup. The strut tower was intact AND used. If "many people" saw it then someone must have pics. They would have come out last year during the multiple posts ripping on them.

I know for a fact(and you can ask Todd or Al) he was asked to retune his computer and Todd kept it after the retune the night before the final race.

Really? The "fact" I know was they spent a rediculous amount of time on the dyno because, like others, they were getting hugely variable numbers during the week. I helped them a bit working on their car (mostly to try to learn something from them). They helped us a ton when we lost a set of lifters and couldn't get a head off. I never saw them pull a computer before the finals race and I was there until close to midnight working on our car.

 

I DID see the broken valve spring after the finals race. Again, should have taken a damn picture to shut everybody up.

 

Their car really was that good and Pat is a pro driver that also has great skills. The combo certainly could have been worth 2 seconds at a huge place like MMP.

 

j

[nape]

If top shops and top drivers build max cars that help develop parts for all of us over time at a cheaper cost thats not a great thing??

 

Anyway something I think alot of folks lose site of these basics and that is what racing has always been about.

 

Nah, that costs way too much. The 80's NASCAR parts bin is way cheaper. It's all clapped out for 700HP, but it works great for 300HP.

[gbrown8439]

My close friend Tommy told me all week Pat was passing him as if he was standing still, after the retune Tommy passed him at the start of the main race, coincidence? Again I ask you to talk to Todd or AL and ask them why they would have asked for the retune and then the confiscation of said computer.

 

Wow, that is some really technical data that you are basing some strong accusations on.

Just out of curiosity, can you tell us what the GPS data was showing on Pats car?

How about any of his dyno sheets?

 

And just for the record, I was working pretty close with Todd and AL during that weekend.

Were you?

[nape]

My close friend Tommy told me all week Pat was passing him as if he was standing still, after the retune Tommy passed him at the start of the main race, coincidence? Again I ask you to talk to Todd or AL and ask them why they would have asked for the retune and then the confiscation of said computer.

 

And I said it last year and i think it was proved this year NOBODY puts two seconds on a very good field.

 

Before you make accusations like that you should probably be there in person to see it with your own eyes, or even watch the videos of the start on Youtube. The last row was on the front row by T1.

 

I was amazed when I took a look at Pat's car. It was everything that's ever been on my To-Do list and then a few things that I didn't know existed. I, too, was looking for ways to call it illegal but it was on the up and up. Everyone was so blinded by engine aspects, they missed all the little things that added speed.

 

Pat could've put a Ford engine in that car this year and still put 2 seconds on the field and it wouldn't have been cheating on HP.

[supermac]

You are all correct I wasn't there, I should not have argued with Steve when he brought it up.

I don't know Pat at all. I did call him out then and regardless of all the staunch support of him I am still very suspicous.

You can look at FIVE years of AI national championships and throw a blanket over them ALL except the run up to the '09

main. Why is that? Don't give me the perfect, well setup arguement, BS! You guys are kidding yourselves if you think it was on the up and up.

His fab guy came on and said the same crap I am hearing now...the LS1(Insert ABS here) is no advantage, blah blah blah.

I will ask the same question again, if it is no advantage and you have this super whizzo perfect maxed out car why did you use it? C'mon Man....lie to the women in your life, not me!

I am done getting hammered for saying what most everyone else is thinking.

If I make a few bucks this year I will drag my car to the nationals and you guys can crush me on the track!

I do love the intent behind this class and the people who are in it!

 

Cody "the mouthy fat guy" Powell

[gbrown8439]

You are all correct I wasn't there, I should not have argued with Steve when he brought it up.

I don't know Pat at all. I did call him out then and regardless of all the staunch support of him I am still very suspicous.

You can look at FIVE years of AI national championships and throw a blanket over them ALL except the run up to the '09

main. Why is that? Don't give me the perfect, well setup arguement, BS! You guys are kidding yourselves if you think it was on the up and up.

His fab guy came on and said the same crap I am hearing now...the LS1(Insert ABS here) is no advantage, blah blah blah.

I will ask the same question again, if it is no advantage and you have this super whizzo perfect maxed out car why did you use it? C'mon Man....lie to the women in your life, not me!

I am done getting hammered for saying what most everyone else is thinking.

If I make a few bucks this year I will drag my car to the nationals and you guys can crush me on the track!

I do love the intent behind this class and the people who are in it!

 

Cody "the mouthy fat guy" Powell

 

Cody,

 

You have every right to be suspicious and I know I wouldn't have "jumped" you had you simply said that. Anytime someone dominates it's natural to doubt them and want to question how they are so fast. It only turns bad when people make the jump to "He has to be cheating to be that fast".

 

I have attended, worked at, or raced at every National race that NASA has put on and IMO there hasn't been a car brought to compete in AI that was anywhere near the level of prep and refinement than Pats. So you have never seen anyone put that kind of time on the field before? That's because no one showed up with a car and driver good enough to do it.

 

I don't expect you to believe me but I would like to think that you could at least admit it may be possible. Look at the AI rules and then think to yourself "If I had an unlimited budget, could I build a car that, with a pro driver, could dominate the field?"

 

I sure think I could.

[Tommy55]

I will not accuse anyone of cheating without proof. That proof i do not have. I was at the championship race and was on the front row. I do know that Pat did botch the start by increasing speed significantly after the pace car exited. Tat did create the accordian affect and caused the cars in the rear to catch up to the front by turn one. I also caused some problems in turn one with the loose lower control arm bolt. Sorry guys. I also do know what i was told with Lindsey's computer. Todd had asked to increase rpm's over 7k to see what kind of power was produced. From what i was told ( 2nd hand again, no accusations ) the computer was tuned where it should be, removed from the car the night before and "slept with Todd under his pillow". I also do know that I finally pulled away from him on the front straight for the first time all week. I don't want to bring all this old stuff up as it is a moot point. Lindsey had a very well prepared car the was built to the full extent of the rules. I can not and will not say if he was cheating or not. It doesn't matter. I am just confirming what I told Cody as I was there. I think what matters most at this point is to get our car counts up and make the series as competitive as possible for all platforms without any huge advantages to one platform or another jmho

[Red Tornado]

This is why I have been pushing for us to have gps and traqmates in all cars.

 

Boy this thread has gone way off track.

 

 

So is anyone else just looking forward to getting back on track soon.

[tacovini]

Sheesh guys...how did ancient ugly history get brought into and dominate a thread about the future?

 

Cody...I lub you man, but, you're letting your mouth run off again. I don't ever want to hear accusations of "cheating" from anyone unless an official result shows "disqualified"...and even then, cheating means intentional misconduct. Cody, I seem to remember a certain year where I had to DQ you from a CMC National Championship race due to the fact that your suspension settings did not meet the CMC rules. You and I know that it was an oversight due to your alignment shop, but, how would you feel if some yahoo in Maine got on a forum and accused you of blatant cheating? Your CMC competitors at the time were pretty understanding of the situation, even after you corrected it, and then came back to win the next race! So you of all people...tsk, tsk...Just not cool...always give people the benefit of the doubt...(and you were DQ'd, Pat never was!)

 

So lots of half-truths and wrong accusations...I think this thread has run it's course and I'm going to lock it before more skeletons start coming out of the closet.

Let's try to keep it on topic and stay civil...remember, someone considering this series is going to keep on walking if they were to see some of the mud-slinging gone on recently. You ALL are ambassadors of this series...in your garage, when you tow your car, at the track...and on this forum!

 

"Fight Nice"

 

PS- I anticipate the 2011 ruleset being published by this weekend. It is in NASA's hands now to bless & publish. I'm leaving for Daytona tomorrow, however, when I return next week I will post "the Director's Cut" of the new rules and the thoughts/decisions that went into them. You may or may not LIKE the decisions, but my goal is that you UNDERSTAND the decisions.

 

-=- Todd Covini