wlfpkrcn1 Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 WOW! What were they thinking? 2011 Western Endurance Racing Championship (WERC) May 15th- Thunderhill (1 + 2 hour)* April 9th- Buttonwillow (3hr) June 25th- Buttonwillow (3hr) Aug 13th-14th- Thunderhill (1 + 2 hour)* Oct 8th- Buttonwillow (3hr) Dec 3rd- Thunderhill (6 hr) *This endurance race will during 5pm -6pm on Saturday night. The cars will be stopped on track and impounded. The race will continue from 8am-10am on Sunday morning. This allows teams to tow on Saturday and return on Sunday. If also allow a later start time for other drivers on Sunday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard migliori Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 (edited) xx Edited January 25, 2011 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clock Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Is the face they didn't get the month ordering right indicative of how much time they put into making it? I jest... But seriously, this is a bit disappointing. We are stripping our car right now, prepping for the roll cage. We were very excited about putting together an enduro effort, but now, with so few events, and two of the events having such an unorthodox format, we may have to reconsider taking it seriously. I know that Norcal NASA is capable of putting on a great enduro series, we have seen it before. Can someone from NASA tell us why the schedules of the last few years have been like this? And more importantly, what needs to change to get better schedules? Is it a money problem, a scheduling problem? A car count problem? Give us the opportunity to make this a better series. This schedule would be 100% better if we could change those 1+2 events to 3 hour events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard migliori Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 (edited) my 2 cents. Richard Edited January 25, 2011 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeski38 Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 I've been with NASA for a while now, and if I have learned on a number of occasions is that NASA will respond to serious requests brought the their attention through direct channels. I have only seen negavtive response from internet banter. Don't misunderstand, I am as disappointed in the schedule as you, but lets persue appointing a series leader, and tasking that person with finding a way to imporve our schedule. Our car will still be built as an enduro car, and with a new family on the way, I have a lot of interest in a less expencive shorter schedule. We still have a lot of time before the series gets going for 2011. It should only take a few small steps to improve the series and schedule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard migliori Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 (edited) delete Edited January 25, 2011 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeski38 Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Anyone mind if I give send Jerry an email asking to reconsider the 1+2 schedule? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlfpkrcn1 Posted January 16, 2011 Author Share Posted January 16, 2011 Mike, We were going to do the same. Maybe if enough competitors ask we can get it changed. We are a small team, but those two races will add approx $1000 to our budget. Usually it is a one day trip for us. Make it for practice, run the race, load up and go home. This will require 3 hotel rooms + additional food and misc. expenses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlfpkrcn1 Posted January 16, 2011 Author Share Posted January 16, 2011 Anyone mind if I give send Jerry an email asking to reconsider the 1+2 schedule? It should also go to Ryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeski38 Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Mike, We were going to do the same. Maybe if enough competitors ask we can get it changed. We are a small team, but those two races will add approx $1000 to our budget. Usually it is a one day trip for us. Make it for practice, run the race, load up and go home. This will require 3 hotel rooms + additional food and misc. expenses. I really think we should designate one person to carryout this request. If there is one thing I know Jerry hates is to be bombarded by requests. It would also show him that we want to be a more organised and united bunch. I would be willing. I think Ryan is also a good person to talk to regarding enduros as a whole, but our first battle is getting those 2 1+2's turned into 3's, and that is a norcal scheduling issue, and that is all Jerry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeski38 Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Mike, We were going to do the same. Maybe if enough competitors ask we can get it changed. We are a small team, but those two races will add approx $1000 to our budget. Usually it is a one day trip for us. Make it for practice, run the race, load up and go home. This will require 3 hotel rooms + additional food and misc. expenses. So I gather that the main issue is not that the race is a 1+2, but that is spans over the weekend. If we were to get the race to be 3 hours sunday morning, that wouldn't be that great of an improvment correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlfpkrcn1 Posted January 16, 2011 Author Share Posted January 16, 2011 Our main concern is the extra cost of an overnight stay. If it was the first 3 hours of Sunday, that is not a problem. It would be the same cost as it being the last 3 on Saturday. I don't think an enduro should be broken up unless red flagged for safety concerns. It is one race, not two Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeski38 Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 So do you guys want me to try and talk with jerry/ryan? If we are all going to complain, I do not want to add to the rucus. Or is someone else better qualified to bring this concern to jerry? Best case senerio, we get 3 hour nonstop race with all track activity on a single day, correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlfpkrcn1 Posted January 16, 2011 Author Share Posted January 16, 2011 Two 3 hour races that run straight through would be our preference. It would be awesome if you were the contact guy with Jerry and Ryan. Let me get something more formal typed with our concerns, and I will PM you. It would be great if we could contact other teams that ran WERC last year, and have a single letter that includes all the teams with concerns. Instead of the handful that visit this board. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard migliori Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 (edited) XX Edited January 25, 2011 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeski38 Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Here id the skinny on it:1. treat the competitors with respect. Acknowledge their presence. 2. Be consistent. SoCal gives out overall acknowledgments as NorCal does not ( same series) 3. Have an overall points column as well as current class. 4. It is a considerable amount of more planning and should be recognized with larger awards. Run a six hour event: Lots of work, time and effort to do our best and put on a great show: return: a left over piece of crap broken trophy without a label on it. ( that was for class win only and nothing for overall). Last year, I hardly picked up any awards except for Ryan's races because it was more of a slap in the face from Nor Cal. Once I get the contact list and other requests, I can get an email group going so we can reach teams that do not frequent the forums. The above are all legit concerns, but it is very likely that we will progress one step at a time with Jerry and NASA. I can almost guarantee they will expect the following from us... -neat and efficient paddock parking -consistent and early entries -to the letter compliance of schedule, and CCR's I have been in this position before, and we'll all need to play ball to expect a good response from NASA. Jerry is a very resonable and likeable guy, he just hates BS, and the one place we can to the most harm is here on the forums. Just because he doesn't post doesn't mean he isn't monitering. I have been in much trouble for getting to aggressive on these forums. It is obvious that the current format is not ideal, but we all know how cool and cost effective endurance racing can be, and NASA is the only club that embraces it to this level, (25 hour). If we play this right, the 3 hour format can become really popular. Grand-am, ALMS, even nascar share the 3 hour timer, we could see some participation from local pro teams looking for test time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard migliori Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 (edited) Edited January 25, 2011 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeski38 Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 good luck. been there done that, got the bowling trophy.paddock parking has never been a concern, early or late entries have never been a concern, compliance has never been a concern, they don't do event techs anymore, just an annual (laziness on their part) the reason I say that is because everyone changes or services something before every race and can overlook a bolt, tie down or oil leak. It should be done every race. So far you are shooting blanks. Thats fine. But if you could, take it easy with the slander on the forums, it will certainly only hurt the series. I am new to the WERC series, but I have run almost every 25, and have seen a great series flounder between 5 and 25 entrants due to forum BS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard migliori Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 (edited) Edited January 25, 2011 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard migliori Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 (edited) xx Edited January 25, 2011 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeski38 Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Mike,If I offended you with my facts then maybe the WERC event is not for you. No offence taken here dude, just be careful not to turn new people away from the series by being too load about current legitimate issues. Your above quoted statement could scare a new racer away looking for more friendly soil. Luckily, I am not a new racer. If more come, things will get better, but if we say things are crap, people won't come. When in fact things are not crap, they just aren't ideal. Where else can you run a series of enduros, ending in the greatest enduro in north america? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard migliori Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 (edited) Edited January 25, 2011 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellwilliam Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 got an update. I sent Jerry an e-mail, he replied promptly. That was very nice of him. I encourage you all to send him an e-mail express your opinion. But do it nicely. I asked him about the logistic of 1+2, here it is: "Cars are stopped on track on the front straight. We start off at 8am with a 10 min warmup session. A couple slow laps, then faster and faster. Then the pace car collects the field for a standard restart. Yes, if you have a spatial lead at the end of an hour, that will go away. However, it’s no different than any other full course yellow" issue I see is that is: unless I lap the competitors night prior, I basically just give up ALL the lead at 8am next day. If I can be a lap faster at end of hour 1, then they really are not my competitor anyway. If I can't lap them, there is no point of going fast. rather hang back, even fall behind everyone, as long as I don't get lapped. so in reality. it really just an 2 hour enduro. Even if I was last night prior (as long as not getting lapped), it would just be like a new 2 hours enduro next day, but just qualified in back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clock Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 issue I see is that is: unless I lap the competitors night prior, I basically just give up ALL the lead at 8am next day. If I can be a lap faster at end of hour 1, then they really are not my competitor anyway. If I can't lap them, there is no point of going fast. rather hang back, even fall behind everyone, as long as I don't get lapped. so in reality. it really just an 2 hour enduro. Even if I was last night prior (as long as not getting lapped), it would just be like a new 2 hours enduro next day, but just qualified in back. Yeah that is what people don't like. It's like playing one period of hockey, going home and resting and sleeping, then playing the other 2 periods the next day. It's not a hockey game. I think another option might be to have a proper race(albiet only 2 hours) on sunday, and use that 1 hour of track time for our OWN warm up, and qualifying. No more "random" gridding... silk purse from a sows ear? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellwilliam Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 I was wrong on qualifying. there is no qualifying on Saturday. just a random grid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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