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944 brake pads for lemons


tjgalati

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Any recommendations on break pads for endurance events? We ran some metal masters last time and they warped our rotors/left a horrible film on them.

 

TIA

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The Hawk Blue 9012 or the Hawk Blue MT4?

 

Our brake setup: 944/1 NA, stock calipers on the front w/ cross drilled rotors. Stock calipers w/ solid rotors in the back. Stock master cylinder and brake bias, etc. We plan to continue running the metal masters pads in the rear since they seem to be doing fine.

 

Our primary goal is the get a brake pads that won't warp the rotors. Our second goal is durability, a pad that will last 24 hours of continuous track driving. We'd rather not have to change the pads in the middle of the race, but will do it if we have no other choice. Our tertiary goal is to keep costs down. Since we started doing these races we have been going through tires and brakes (pads + rotors) like they are going out of style in serious way!

 

I have used KFP Gold pads before in endurance races with our above setup with excellent results. They wore out incredible fast though, and would not last 24 hours of continuous driving.

 

So far we have used and failed with (stock mintex semi-organic pads, metal master M semi-metallic pads, metal master C ceramic kevlar pads). Both types of the metal master pads warped our rotors after about 4 hours of continuous track driving. Until they warped I felt they worked really good.

 

Another consideration is brake cooling... the rotors usually warp because of heat, right? What if we made some sort of brake cooling ducts or got some from a 944 turbo brake ducts and installed them on our 944 NA? Theoretically that would help.

 

Anyways we are open to any other pad or brake recommendations.

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cooling ducts can be made from 3" aluminum ducting from Home depot and some hose clamps.

 

Remove the fog lights and use them as holes.

wheelwell.jpg

Here is strut mount.

 

weltsway6.jpg

 

I have never run 24 hrs, but would be little concern about hawk blues locking up given the crappy tires you need for lemons car.

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We ran Hawk Blues when we ran the 25Hr but that was on RA-1's. I forget what we have on the Lemons car - but wouldn't be surprised if they are also Hawk Blues (Ken Huey might remember what was put in).

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RE: 944-Spec#94

 

That is a nice looking brake ductwork! I think we will have to do something like that...

 

That's also an INSANE looking adjustable sway bar. Where did you get it or how did you make it??? Looks really nice.

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The sway bar is just an off the shelf weltmeister 28mm solid bar. Standard fared for most 944-spec cars. However they cost about 400 dollars so not suitable for LeMons.

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I have never run 24 hrs, but would be little concern about hawk blues locking up given the crappy tires you need for lemons car.

 

 

We run Hawk Blues on the front of our E30 LeMons car. We have to run less compound in the rear. We usually run a high performance street pad in the rear. The same setup should work well for a 944. You will have more brake than tire, so you have to be careful not to flat spot you front tires. Because of this, some teams run a less aggressive pad in the front. I have found that anything less than a race pad wears too much.

 

I wouldn't worry about ducting. Without race tires you won't be working the brakes that hard. With ducting, you may actually find that the brakes don't get hot enough.

 

If you haven't made a tire selection, I'd look at the Dunlop Star Specs or the Falken RT-615K. If you go the Falken route, make sure they are the new K tires not old stock. We have run the Falkens in the last 6 races we've done. They need really low pressures. We start are 20psi in the front and 19psi in the rear on a 1900# E30. If you car is more like 2400#, I'd add a couple of psi to the cold pressures.

 

As for size, the 205/50-15 should work well. You'll need the extra gearing because of all the traffic. Besides, in those tires that's the widest tire available in a 15" size. I used the same size on my BMW 6 Series LeMons car, too. I set some of the fastest laps of the race in that big car with those little tires.

 

-bj

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The sway bar is just an off the shelf weltmeister 28mm solid bar. Standard fared for most 944-spec cars. However they cost about 400 dollars so not suitable for LeMons.

 

Oh I didn't realize realize that. We have another 944 that we bought as a part car but it seems to be in pretty decent shape so we are considering making it a 944 spec car. so maybe we'll get one for it and then "borrow it for free" for the other car

 

We actually have a $300 residual from the last race so we do have a little bit of money to spend on suspension or performance. Brakes or brake/steering related components and tires are not included included in the $500 price.

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Thanks everyone for the advice!

 

RE: loftygoals

 

We are currently using the 205/50 15 star specs. I really like them. I've been wanting to try the azenis 615k's with that k compound rubber... Other guys on our team actually want to try and get 235 or 245's all around on the car. We had tried 225/50 15's but all the models with treadwear > 190 that we tried were pretty bad compared to the star specs. (we tried, BF Goodrich G-Force sports - they were ok, Sumitomo HTR 200's - they were ok, Yokohama ES1000 - they were TERRIBLE, and some off brand tires) One of the guys badly flatspotted the tires a few races back at Thunderhill. Spun out going over 100, and when he lost control he just smashed on the brake pedal harder. It ruined the set of tires.

 

And thanks for the reminder about the tire pressures... at our last race, i sent out our guy out with 30psi cold tires; it was cold and had been raining. But it warmed up and dried up and they were at 45psi at the end of his stint. Oops, my bad.

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We actually have a $300 residual from the last race so we do have a little bit of money to spend on suspension or performance. Brakes or brake/steering related components and tires are not included included in the $500 price.

 

I would not use weltbar on Lemons car. Firstly it very stiff and not ideal with stock springs. And second is that it attracts too much attention. Even if you can get one in budget you will probably be hassled for it. Better to get a 968 M030 30 mm hollow sway bar. These look like stock, but just thicker. Get one dirty and grimey and it may go un notice. Plus for $300 you may be able to afford a used one.

 

You will also want to go with rear sway bar to match the front otherwise the balance will by way off.

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Late to the game here but we run the Porterfield R-4 up here on our 44Cup cars, so on our 944 ChumpCar we ran those up front with Hawk HP+ in the rear for better balance. Worked out well.

 

Honestly any decently matched set of sways will work fine. We upgraded ours to turbo bars front and rear. We ran on the NLA Hankook Ventus R-S2 and very much liked them.

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  • 2 months later...

I just wanted to post a follow up on what we did and now it worked out. After talking to a couple of race shops and other racers - we stuck with our original PBR/Metal Masters brake pads and instead, just installed front brake ducts. Installing the brake ducts made a HUGE difference, and I defintely recommend it to anyone that's thinking about doing it. I can say this based on first hand experience. No build up on the rotors and no shimmie/vibrations like we had before, and great predictable braking. Longer life too, the current set of metal master brake pads has been on for 2 Speedventure track days. 17 hours at Infineon Lemons, and 24 hours at the streets of willows Chumpcar, they are pretty much done now though... So we met our original goal of going with lower priced pad (the metal masters are $40/set), and we have good braking at a great price. Don't get me wrong, We've run the KFP Golds before and I actually have porterfield pads on my 944 spec car - pads like that are really nice, but are a lot more expensive and IMO for the type of racing we're doing, simple not worth the extra cost (especially since our "custom" brake ducting only cost $20 bucks and 30 minutes to install) =]

 

Happy Motoring

Larez2

 

PS. we clamped the front springs to lower the car about 1.25 inches and we re-indexed the torsion bars in the rear to lower the car about 2 inches. Kept the stock size sway bars F/R. The lowering seemed to make a HUGE difference in a very good way).

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