[email protected] Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 I'm putting my front swaybar back to stock to free up the 2 points. Do I also have to go back to OEM end links? My current end links are not spherical but they are adjustable - they have the ball joints on either end just like OEM... The writing just says "modifying the anti-roll bars" which would both remain stock. Are they also referring to the stock design end links or no? Happy to put the end links back to stock if needed but was just wondering - I have both on the bench. Thanks, Sam Wording: 6) Add, replace, remove, or modify anti-roll bars (“sway” bars—front, rear, or both—may have spherical joints on the end links without additional points assessment) +2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboShortBus Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 7) Add, replace, remove, or modify anti-roll bars (“sway” bars—front, rear, or both—may havespherical joints on the end links and/or relocation of the mounting points without additional points assessment) +2 24) Metallic and/or spherical-design replacement suspension bushings +3 (except for pillow ball camber plate joints, swaybar end links already assessed points in E.7) above, control arm spindle/knuckle joints already assessed points in E.9) above, and panhard rod or Watts links already assessed in E.20) or E.21) above.) Based on E24 above, I would say that you probably need to put your stock end links back in. It's probably safer to do so, if only to avoid trackside questioning and/or protests (and especially if there is no performance difference). Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperkins Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 This has been thoroughly discussed in the past. Adjustable endlinks are definately 2 points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drivinhardz06 Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 they are +2 it would probably be a good thing to recommend adj end links as a no points mod for future rules. I think the "intent" of a lot of the free mods is maximizing what is there from the factory, and this follows right along with that. all you are simply trying to do with them is once getting your suspension set up, and corner weighted, is keeping the sway bars from jacking more weight back into your set-up. I don't see it as anything beyond say a sway bar or suspension bushing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperkins Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 it would probably be a good thing to recommend adj end links as a no points mod for future rules. I think the "intent" of a lot of the free mods is maximizing what is there from the factory, and this follows right along with that. all you are simply trying to do with them is once getting your suspension set up, and corner weighted, is keeping the sway bars from jacking more weight back into your set-up. I don't see it as anything beyond say a sway bar or suspension bushing. Very true. If anything, having adjustable endlinks on stock bars would make the cars more equal since they will all differ from the factory a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z06 Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Hum...stock vs aftermarket. Broke mine this past event. If your aftermarket endlinks are stronger stay with them. Protest based on safety vs performance. Replacing mine based on safety. Screw performance gains. If regional directors can't understand safety vs performance gains, then certain items being replaced because of safety should be protested to the national level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperkins Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Hum...stock vs aftermarket. Broke mine this past event. If your aftermarket endlinks are stronger stay with them. Protest based on safety vs performance. Replacing mine based on safety. Screw performance gains. If regional directors can't understand safety vs performance gains, then certain items being replaced because of safety should be protested to the national level. That'll never work. We tried the safety thing with our crappy brakes last year. Just remember to put the 2 points on your form and you'll be good to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 they are +2 it would probably be a good thing to recommend adj end links as a no points mod for future rules. I think the "intent" of a lot of the free mods is maximizing what is there from the factory, and this follows right along with that. all you are simply trying to do with them is once getting your suspension set up, and corner weighted, is keeping the sway bars from jacking more weight back into your set-up. I don't see it as anything beyond say a sway bar or suspension bushing. or at least a +1 if you take them by themselves KB, who says there aren't really any 1pt mods to choose from when you have a hp/weight reclass and it'd be nice to not sit at +18 total... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboShortBus Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 That'll never work. I'll second that! "My car is safer with the turbo on it...zero points, please." Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 How long before the PTA thunder roadsters petition to give the vettes better brakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z06 Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Comparing a turbo or brakes to an endlink or some other non descript item is not even close. Just because some yahoo manufacturer on the Internet claims it will add performance doesn't or rarely happens. There are no beefy endlinks to choose from aftermarket wise. These idiot manufacturers either make some wimpy toothpick (stock) endlink or this adjustable garbage. I didnt buy mine to adjust it. I bought it so it wouldn't break. I have actually thought about buying a used cnc machine to build thick non adjustable endlinks and selling them. And Building other items that are just not available thru the aftermarket. @ Mark It seems like your used to dealing with people who wanna add crap to their car to make it faster or competitive advantage. Understand when I protest this it has nothing to do with getting an advantage. It is all about safety. Some items don't do a thing for a car other than knockout breakage. Like endlinks or a catch can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z06 Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 For example: Adding a turbo is about performance. Adding better brakes is about performance. Adding a racing seat and harness is under safety, but that I can guarantee you in a vette or some other lazy boy recliner american car seat it adds performance. At least a full second or more. But there is not a single hit for points when this is added to a car. Putting together my seat tonight. Oh and I am not mad. Never met you and not sure how text is interrupted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brkntrxn Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 @ David, Can you provide an example of any time in which an endlink on a sway bar broke and was the root cause of an accident? I just don't see how you could ever make that leap and state that endlinks are a safety item. -Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z06 Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Yes. trying to download a picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z06 Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Ok. How do you post a picture? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z06 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 See if this works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obzezzed350 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 You have to host it somewhere like photobucket.com and then copy the IMG tags in your post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSP608 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 It seems like your used to dealing with people who wanna add crap to their car to make it faster or competitive advantage. Understand when I protest this it has nothing to do with getting an advantage. It is all about safety. Some items don't do a thing for a car other than knockout breakage. Like endlinks or a catch can. Just because it doesn't provide an advantage to you, doesn't mean all cars can't benefit from it. There could be a certain car that greatly benefits from aftermarket endlinks. And you can't make exceptions to rules, because once you start that the rulebook will be 10x longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboShortBus Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Oh and I am not mad. Never met you and not sure how text is interrupted. Bah, me either. I break balls at every opportunity, and I expect the same from others. Occasionally, I get down to business, though. Occasionally. The "performance modifications under the guise of safety" topic came up a few weeks ago, when a Bimmer driver didn't want to pay the +1 point for removing his OEM manual cooling fan because the fan blades break and fly off when they get old. A suggestion was made that, if the OEM manual cooling fans are that unreliable, they be seen as a wear item and be replaced at a frequent interval. A similar discussion took place regarding OEM Bimmer rear control arms; a driver wanted to weld material to make them stiffer, but didn't want to pay the +4 points for modified rear arms. IIRC, it was suggested that the OEM arms be changed at the first sign of fatigue in order to avoid the points assessment (actually, I think I suggested that he sell the car if the OEM arms were as dangerous as he said). Based on the above, if the OEM swaybar links are not reliable, then they should probably be changed at an interval occurring before they wear and/or fail, or increase the strength of the system by installing non-OEM links and taking the points assessment. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedengineer Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 To the op: If I had to add my 2 cents, I would say that antiroll bar links are part of the rollbar 'system' and as such you are subject to taking the points. I'm sure there is some car out there that has soft bushings in their links rather than ball joints, and so replacing them would increase the effective rate of the bar. Now, in your case, I would never protest you, and nor would most other competitors I would expect. However, if you don't take the points for them, you still run the risk that someone might protest you. That risk/hassle wouldn't be worth it to me. If you take the the time to replace the bars, the extra 1/2 hour to change the links back to stock too is probably worth it if there truly 'isn't' any performance gain. In my personal experience, oem parts are more reliable than 90% of aftermarket parts anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z06 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I see the reason for the points and understand. Wish I could post the picture easily. Interesting where the endlink broke and how easily it did break. Hope the aftermarket set I bought doesn't break that easy. All cars have their faults. I'll add the points. If it doesnt add some reliability, I will just go back to stock and check regularly. Learning how to play by rules is difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z06 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 You can see it snapped where they thinned the material. Kept wondering why the car was pushing like an old Musturd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Have you changed the ride height at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z06 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z06 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Finally... Endlink broke at it's thinnest part. Yes the car is lowered but the struts have collars to adjust attachment point of endlink. Didn't result in an accident, but the car had a nice push to it. The endlink broke on the driver's right side. We were running CW at this event. Probably broke when I went off the track... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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