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monstere30

new RA1 compound lacks durability BIG TIME

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monstere30

The latest RA1 has a different rubber compound and there are complaints from a lot racers who are starting to become aware of 10-12 heat cycles with graining which is a real issue for ALL racers who have enjoyed the LEGENDARY durability of the previous tire compound.

 

we have been keeping track of tire dates since we were told that they are to fresh out of the mold, but we ran a set that had a feb. 2010 date on it last weekend that we broke in slowly for 2 sessions in nov. then when we ran the tire in 65' F. temps it corded by the end of the weekend after starting the weekend with 3 1/2 grooves.

 

but before the tire lost it last groove it was 3/4 of a second slower. they have always run fastest at this point of wear for us in the past. and the previous pairs last summer wore REAL FAST!

 

nasa needs to know there is a BIG problem with the NEW RA1 tell everyone to email their regional director and let's get toyo to put the old rubber back on these tires. TELL MIATA,PCA,944 AND E30 DRIVERS to keep some records to give to nasa about these RA1 imposters.

 

ONLY AS A GROUP CAN WE MAKE A DIFFERENCE!

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dmathias

What shave did your Toyos start at: 1/32, 2/32, 3/32?

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monstere30

3/32 like we have been doing for the last 2 years

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bucketlist

I used to get two race weekends from a set, now it seems like that has been cut in half - I shave them to 3/32nds also.

 

I really didn't want to double my tire budget right now.....

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Sterling Doc

I haven't seen this personally, and are very glad to be back on the RA-1's again. Broke all the old R-888 track records last year back on RA-1's, so they seem to be pretty fast.

 

I will keep tracking heat cycles...

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Steve D

MonsterE30 -

 

You may want to post over on mazdaforums.com (the site that specmiata.com relocated to) since there is much more SM traffic there.

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juliancates
MonsterE30 -

 

You may want to post over on mazdaforums.com (the site that specmiata.com relocated to) since there is much more SM traffic there.

 

Actually, that's mazdaracers.com

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bucketlist

But the info may be of value to other classes of NASA racers on RA-1's also.

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Steve D
MonsterE30 -

 

You may want to post over on mazdaforums.com (the site that specmiata.com relocated to) since there is much more SM traffic there.

 

Actually, that's mazdaracers.com

Doh! You are right. Sorry.

 

PS - I suggested posting on mazdaracers.com simply because the original poster was asking for data to demonstrate that RA1s wear more quickly than they used to. As the largest affected class (SCCA & NASA), Spec Miata is a great source of data but not many drivers visit this forum compared to specmiata.com>mazdaracers.com.

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monstere30

it is unfortunate that there are a lot of us seeing the same thing in regards to tire wear. i am glad that it's just not me and i will try the mazada forum next.

 

I called toyo directly and the gal laughed at the notion that the tire has been made with a different rubber compound and to confuse me even more she stated that the 888 was the RA1 compound. then i said why would you use a old rubber compound with a new tire ie 888 she didn't have an answer. she also said that the 888 were faster on the teams who learned the proper setup's.

 

be sure and let us know what the manufacturing dates are on your tires so we can see if how fresh they are makes a difference.

 

PLEASE CONTINUE TO SPREAD THE WORD!!! and send those emails to nasa and toyo

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dahl460

I've noticed this on the last set I got. A year ago I ran a 3hr enduro on a set of 2/32nd tires that had 2 sessions including the 2009 championship race on them and the tires still had lines after the enduro. This year I had a new set of 3/32nds and only did a warm up session on them before the race, after the race the right sides were corded and my lap times were 2 seconds slower then the year before. So something has changed, there dated 1410

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monstere30

i wasted my right front tire at Thunderhill in 2 sesions in sept. 2010 and that tire had a date of june 2010. that is when i started to notice and report these issues to other drivers and now i am trying to get the word out.

 

please contact toyo and your regional director!

 

I cannot afford this can you?

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jthill

It should be pretty obvious that Toyo wants to bag the RA-1. Personally I think it's time to bag Toyo.

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Sterling Doc

Guys, there are a lot of variables that go into tire wear, surface type, alingment, driving harder as you go faster - are just a few. The guys who track these things year over year on the same tracks are not seeing this variation. Toyo is a generous sponsor that we are quite frankly very lucky to have! Over $8K in Toyo buck to Midwest 944 Spec alone.

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monstere30

goodyear wants into nasa's spec series so does yokahama you also have hoosier and hankook. these manufactures all give tires for podiums 2-3 for 1st place 1 tire all the way down to 5th depending on field size of course. toyo for 1st gives you a $150.00 toyo buck that does not even buy you a tire $100. TB for 2nd and $75.00 for 3rd. as you can see other manufactures are giving a lot more then toyo. i think they are taking for granted that they have this deal no matter what!

 

here is the problems that i see with a change.

 

1) what set ups are required to get performance and wear out of these tires. lets face it i am not a race engineer. 888

 

2) once #1 is figured out how DURABLE is the tire, this is a priority. time are not important as long as we all have the same tires.

 

3) availability hankook has problems in europe and was bailed out by i think continentil when they could not provide enpugh tires for the race series. yokahama does not seem to have a tire and the reports i have read there tire falls apart. goodyear and hoosier sound good they do not require shaving saving norcal drivers $20.00- $30.00 question here is heat cycles how many before they are no longer competitive. then there is price of the tires. these slicks are around $200.00.

 

sure would be nice for toyo to straighten out this compound problem call toyo at

 

1800 442 8696 consumer relations. Make the call it is free and lets see what line they feed you about the new RA1 compound

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Sterling Doc

Don't forget the year end/regional championship Toyo bucks, Another $1,750 there per class. The grass alway looks greener...

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monstere30

that is pennies for all the tires they are selling EVERY weekend. hpde people are noticing the difference.

 

and for you to talk about $1750 vs. $700 per weekend that is not debateable in the eyes of 98% of drivers who don't see that $1750 they only see the $700 cash out of our pockets with every purchase of a new set of these imposters.

 

i can take a set of these RA1's actually i hate to call them that lets just say these tires and i could cord these 3 month old tires in 1 hour at infineon or thunderhill without trying to KILL them just driving real fast. 09' tires would NEVER do this!

 

even the $2650.00 that i won from toyo last year did not make up the difference for the amount i paid out. this season looks like it could get worse seeing how i don't have a set of 09' to run for the 1st 3 race weekends like i had last year.

 

MAKE A DIFFERENCE MAKE THE CALL TO TOYO AND EMAIL YOUR REGIONAL DIRECTOR!

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dmathias

No offense Mr. Kuhns, but this is the SM thread. SM racers (only) should be able to input on what spec tire they want - without the non-public deals.

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Sterling Doc
No offense Mr. Kuhns, but this is the SM thread. SM racers (only) should be able to input on what spec tire they want - without the non-public deals.

 

The OP specifically asked for help from the other classes, specifically "944", so I gave my perspective. I am not calling anyone out, only saying to proceed with caution. We all take things for granted sometimes.

 

IF the speculation in this thread is true, NASA will listen, but you need to have a lot of hard data, and a better solution, that is worth the pain of a fundamental rules change.

 

With the R-888 issue, we had guys who tracked every heat cycle on every tire they ran since 2002. We presented NASA with years worth of data that made a convincing arguement, and it helped make a change. Having dealt with them on several painful issues, the NASA admin. is very reasonable, but not reactionary. Present good data, and practical solutions.

 

With that, I've said my piece - good luck.

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dmathias

Again Mr. Kuhns, no offense intended. I believe that a class should be able to vote on what spec tire they want, independent of deals made by sanctioning bodies.

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monstere30

hard data is what is going to be required for nasa to see.

 

by the way toyo has said that the rubber from the original RA1 was the same used for the 888. so why does it seem so weak now?

 

but in order to make this thing happen we need the word to get out and we ALL have to keep track of our tires heat cycles and track temps so they can see that there is a HUGE problem.

 

call toyo.

 

tell all the other groups.

 

or we will see less drivers run the entire race season which means smaller grids due to tires.

 

i plan on using a fresh set of tires in 2 weeks at infineon and will be showing the wear to our regional director before and after each day. hope that i can make it throught the weekend on 1 set.

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cosm3os

I have not heard of any problems in the SM commuity and we've had quite a few events already this year.

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monstere30

just ask some of your competitors if they have seen any difference. that is when the light switch comes on and they will think to themselves "hey i used to run those tires for three or four events".

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cosm3os

You don't know the SM guys. They know how much their farts weigh and have spreadsheets to prove it. No detail goes unoticed in SM. If they were having wear problems, they'd be screaming about it already.

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CWeber
You don't know the SM guys. They know how much their farts weigh and have spreadsheets to prove it. No detail goes unoticed in SM. If they were having wear problems, they'd be screaming about it already.

 

 

too funny

 

 

But keep in mind our Autobahn race on Saturday was in the rain (probably not the best 'wear' indicator). The RA1s I used on Sunday had 09 date codes (so yes I'm running old tires) so I can't comment on any of this yet but once I use 2010 date coded Toyo's, I'll see if I notice any differences!

 

I'm sure others will chime in if they notice anything new/different.

 

The only other thing I could think of is if this is limited to one or 2 tracks so far and did anything change with those tracks? (repaved, etc?)

 

We really need lots of data (track, date, temps during race)... but did anyone keep this sort of data for the 09 and older RA1s to have for comparison data?

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