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jason

ST2 vs. STR2

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jason

What's the difference?

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Cobra4B

Question, it is a good one.

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obzezzed350

There are four Super Touring classes—Super Touring 1 (ST1), Super Touring 2 (ST2), Super

Touring R1 (STR1), and Super Touring R2 (STR2)—with STR1 and ST1 being the higher

performance level classes of the four. Super Unlimited (SU) is an unrestricted class for any

closed wheel/fendered vehicle that complies with the safety requirements in the NASA CCR.

An “Adjusted” Weight/Power ratio (section 7.4), modified based on body type, transmission,

drivetrain, tires, and overall weight, is used to equalize cars in each of the Super Touring classes,

although there are some additional restrictions placed on all vehicles in Super Touring classes

(sections 7.2 & 7.3). STR1 and STR2 are for closed wheel/fendered monocoque sports racers,

tube-frame, tube-frame conversion, partial tube-frame, and other production and non-production

four wheel vehicles.

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Vettedoctor

Just as an FYI, even if you are legal to run STR2 - which all ST2 cars are - doesn't mean all regions will let you run both.

We have had this happen a few times in the last couple years in the MW/GL regions, when racing for tires, someone who usually runs ST2 wants to run in STR2 because there are more cars in STR2 and the possibility of winning Hoosiers is out there.

However in MW/GL STR2 runs with the "small bore" run group and ST2 runs with the "big bore" run group. There is also as much as a 3 second differance between the fast ST2 times and STR2 times - with ST2 being the faster of the two. So ST2 drivers looking to "steal" tires are told they cannot run in STR2. If the ST2 driver makes a big enough fuss he's usually allowed to run for one day or the other but not both. And in one case last year all of the STR2 cars decided not to run when the race when a ST2 car was allowed to race in STR2.

The whole thing looks kinda odd but there is reasoning behind it, the STR2 class in GL/MW is made up of Legends and Thunder Roadsters and they have some good competitive racing between them, they are not on the same pace as the ST2 cars but they do have a good thing going.

Hopefully there won't be a reason for ST2 drivers to have to run STR2 just for the sake of car counts in 2011, but you never know.

I just wanted to bring this up in case anyone is thinking of running both ST2 and STR2 at Mid-O, because it may not work out that way. We'll see what this year brings but I just wanted to tell/warn people about how things have been handled in the past.

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jrgordonsenior

Out West we have a group of 13-15 STR2 Mazda GT's (tube framed) that are allowed to run in ST2. Great group of drivers and ST2 would be significantly dimished without their participation. Several of them ran in both classes at the Nationals at Miller.....

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jason

1. Seems kinda redundant.

2. Either you're legal to run in a class or you're not.

3. Was just curious.

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jrgordonsenior
1. Seems kinda redundant.

2. Either you're legal to run in a class or you're not.

3. Was just curious.

 

Most of us are racing for tires so more cars in class is a good thing.....

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L98Terror
Out West we have a group of 13-15 STR2 Mazda GT's (tube framed) that are allowed to run in ST2. Great group of drivers and ST2 would be significantly dimished without their participation. Several of them ran in both classes at the Nationals at Miller.....

 

Those cars are grandfathered in.

 

The class was made for tube framed cars, in theory they should be faster than a production based car but that has yet to be the case.

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Greg G.

Recently, some owners of cars built for AI and AIX requested waivers to run in ST with some fairly major modifications to the transmission tunnels and the rear floorpan bringing third links inside the car, completely relocated suspension mounting with floorpan mods, etc. It was determined that these would not be approved for ST. However, these cars can certainly run in STR where chassis and body mods are almost completely unrestricted.

 

STR is perfect for some cars running in GT tube-frame and stock car classes elsewhere. But, as Ken mentioned, the potential class beasts have not shown up yet, and our fastest ST1 and ST2 cars have dominated STR Supersizing at the Championships so far.

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Red Tornado

Looking at Road Atlanta field this weekend and may be moving it up to STR2 from ST2 to run for tires.

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jason
Looking at Road Atlanta field this weekend and may be moving it up to STR2 from ST2 to run for tires.

That's funny, the PTA guys were just thinking the same thing.

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Red Tornado

Yeah clearly we all need to talk before start of saturday and get running in a combined group. Figure if we get 7 at least 3 win a tire!!

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drivinhardz06
Looking at Road Atlanta field this weekend and may be moving it up to STR2 from ST2 to run for tires.

That's funny, the PTA guys were just thinking the same thing.

 

I'm gonna need a billboard pulling behind the car just for all the class stickers

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Weed Wacker
What's the difference?

 

You know how all squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares? That's ST2 and STR2

 

Just as an FYI, even if you are legal to run STR2 - which all ST2 cars are - doesn't mean all regions will let you run both.

We have had this happen a few times in the last couple years in the MW/GL regions, when racing for tires, someone who usually runs ST2 wants to run in STR2 because there are more cars in STR2 and the possibility of winning Hoosiers is out there.

However in MW/GL STR2 runs with the "small bore" run group and ST2 runs with the "big bore" run group. There is also as much as a 3 second differance between the fast ST2 times and STR2 times - with ST2 being the faster of the two. So ST2 drivers looking to "steal" tires are told they cannot run in STR2. If the ST2 driver makes a big enough fuss he's usually allowed to run for one day or the other but not both. And in one case last year all of the STR2 cars decided not to run when the race when a ST2 car was allowed to race in STR2.

The whole thing looks kinda odd but there is reasoning behind it, the STR2 class in GL/MW is made up of Legends and Thunder Roadsters and they have some good competitive racing between them, they are not on the same pace as the ST2 cars but they do have a good thing going.

Hopefully there won't be a reason for ST2 drivers to have to run STR2 just for the sake of car counts in 2011, but you never know.

I just wanted to bring this up in case anyone is thinking of running both ST2 and STR2 at Mid-O, because it may not work out that way. We'll see what this year brings but I just wanted to tell/warn people about how things have been handled in the past.

 

This was mostly because there are two people in our group that have issues with not getting a plastic trophy . That will be happening less this year, now that we know that's the case...

 

Not naming anyone, just saying we would just get told "hey we need to all do this" and it was a roll with the punches after that

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sperkins

CSIPerformace - I didn't quote your whole post since it was pretty long (and it was well explained).

BUT - the whole thought process behind that is a load of bull crap (not directed at you). Here's why.

 

However in MW/GL STR2 runs with the "small bore" run group and ST2 runs with the "big bore" run group.

ST2 and STR2 both are 8.7:1 pw/wt rato classes. They should both be in the "big bore" group rather than pandering to the lower hp cars.

 

ST2 drivers looking to "steal" tires are told they cannot run in STR2.

It's not stealing tires if you win them with a class legal car.

 

And in one case last year all of the STR2 cars decided not to run when the race when a ST2 car was allowed to race in STR2.

Boo hoo for the guys that didn't or couldn't build a car capable of winning in a class they registered for.

Don't forget that the ST2 driver can claim a No-Points Run per CCR 22.6 as not to interere with the series points battle.

In fact it specifically mentions contingencies:

"This allows visiting or occasional series drivers a chance to compete for prize money, prizes, and

trophies, without interfering in the season points hunt for the series regulars. All “non-points” drivers are entitled

to collect everything else associated with their finishing position."

 

the STR2 class in GL/MW is made up of Legends and Thunder Roadsters and they have some good competitive racing between them, they are not on the same pace as the ST2 cars but they do have a good thing going.

How much sense does that make? Who cares if they have a good thing going? STR2 was never meant to be a Legends or Thunder Roadster class - it's a 8.7:1 class. If there are other cars that are eligible to compete and win in that class then more power to them.

 

 

Like I said, my beef is not with you. It just doesn't make any sense the way it's being handled.

We in the SE are starting to see it now. Folks are jumping to the STR2 class because historically no one runs there. We had ONE guy run ONE weekend in that class all last year for a total of 200 season points for the entire class and now we have 3 cars registered in STR2 for the next race weekend and had 3 that ran in STR2 the first race of the season. That's fine, but there should be no special excpetions made when a faster or better class prepared car shows up to compete. We're all going by the same rule book.

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drivinhardz06
Yeah clearly we all need to talk before start of saturday and get running in a combined group. Figure if we get 7 at least 3 win a tire!!

 

we'll have 3 groups of 8.7:1 cars running in 3 different classes

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jason
we'll have 3 groups of 8.7:1 cars running in 3 different classes

Max trophies!

 

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drivinhardz06
we'll have 3 groups of 8.7:1 cars running in 3 different classes

Max trophies!

 

 

we can all pile into ST2, or STR2. ST2 turnout looks light.

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Vettedoctor

@ Scott,

 

I agree with you, but I can also see/understand NASA's side, they are a business and they want to keep as many of there customers happy as they can. If one car/customer is going to pi$$ off 4 or 5 customers then I can see why they would try to smooth things out. I know this is racing, not 5th grade soccer , but I understand trying to find some middle ground.

What I think is BS is that all of those guys jumped out of class because the (at that time) reigning STR2 National champ signed up for their class. Now wouldn't you think you would want to take a shot at the champ? See how you stack up against the best, how good does that trophy look when you know you didn't beat the best? I have a feeling that things in our region(s) will change a bit this year with Nationals coming to Mid-Ohio. But I guess we will see, there's the way things should be and the way things are.

I'm from WI and I don't think my state should be run by a union bashing a$$hole but......

 

Edit: One thing you guys can do is make sure you run with the STR2 defectors, make sure they don't get too comfortable in there own little class. I think that's what happened up here, this group found it's own place to race and got comfortable there, then when someone else came in and raced with them it pi$$ed them off. If you get to them early then this false sence of entitlement may not come about. Just a thought.

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jason

So you're saying everyone in ST2 and PTA should all switch to STR2.

 

I like how you think.

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Red Tornado

I will gladly give up any chnce on a $5 trophy for a pair of $300 tires.

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