47car Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Attention all current, ex and up and coming American Iron racers on the west coast. I have a proposal for you guys that I think you may like. Check this out. The idea.....For the racers, by the racers! We start up a new west coast AI type series that runs inside of the AIX run group. We (the racers) make up the rules that we abide by democratically by vote. We run inside AIX because the rules are so loose that we can have pretty much free range. The first set of rules will be made by a committee consisting of all racers ready to compete this year. This can be a temporary fix for west coast AI or permanent. Here are some of my suggestions that can be voted in or out by the committee: -No dyno! I suggest we use traqmate to keep everything legit. -Make adjustments to the current AI rules to appease the masses and keep the series as inexpensive as possible -Spec an inexpensive 275mm tire that will last and that we can get contingency for. Maybe we can talk Yokohama into letting us into their NASA contingency. 2 free tires for first place with 5 starters! Whatever as long as its cheap right? -No ABS! (Wheeler) -Raise the minimum weight (Ross) -No exotic, expensive BS OR..... -Adopt a similar ruleset as ST where obvious advantages can have a power penalty. Keep the guys with newer technology and deep pockets in line but still be able to compete. Seems like that is what alot of AI guys are pissed about. $4000 in cold, hard cash for the top finishers! Agent 47 will contribute 4K in cash to the top racers regardless of what brand of suspension they are running. $1500 for first, $1000 for second, $500 for third and $1000 for rookie of the year. NASA will most likely not accept this group of renegades as a legitimate class and I dont blame them. These cars will run as AIX cars and we will have to run legally inside AIX. The committee will have to distribute its own awards, lap records, prize money and policing of the rules. Professionally made race videos for each race weekend Agent 47 will also lend the services of Bryan Rogers to produce bitchin videos of the race action for the weekend. This will greatly help build the hype and bring new guys in. He can also do racer interviews, car profiles and stuff like that to make it more personal. What else??? Any ideas, please bring them! Bump up the power? No Aero? what? Who is in??? Who will join this cause to bring good AI racing back to California? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmay Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 I vote for Hoosier tires if you can piggy back onto NASA's program. My self centered opinion thinks there should be a wt/hp ratio similar to ST2. At this level costs aren't outrageous and you can go pretty damn fast. It's an easy number to hit with a sbf/lsx in our chassis'. At a minimum dyno sheets should be submitted and the cars weighed each day. Wait a minute this is starting to sound a lot like ST2. . . Adopt the ST2 rules for pony cars and be done with it. Simple Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
47car Posted March 16, 2011 Author Share Posted March 16, 2011 Yep. There is alot of good stuff in the ST2 rules for sure. Tweaks would be needed though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coupe331 Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 To be competitive in ST2 in SoCal you need to run hoosier SLICKS that run $380 each and to be really fast they need to be replaced every weekend. I know that hooiser has a very generous contingency program but if you have a mechanical or don’t finish well tires will be VERY expensive. In SoCal we have E36 M3’s on 265 slicks and 996 Porsche’s on 265/305 slicks. I don’t see how are pony cars are going to be competitive against those cars and C5 and C6 vettes. I would much rather run on cheaper and longer lasting Toyo’s. They may not be the best tire for getting a lap time, but if we are all using the same tire it doesn’t matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
47car Posted March 16, 2011 Author Share Posted March 16, 2011 NASA has made it clear that they will not make any exceptions for AI legal mods that are not already legal in ST2 so actually competing in ST2 is out for me. Using some of the ST2 rules could be handy for this new venture though. RA1s make alot of sense since most of the current AI cars probably still have tires ready to go. Last I heard Toyo was out of 18s. That is an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmay Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I agree that Hoosiers can get very expensive, especially if you're not winning. I'd be willing to do this if you could secure some good tire contingency. I don't care if the spec tire is a 225 Fusion HRi as long there is an opportunity to offset some cost for front runners. I would also like to see an 8.7/1 power limit. This is fairly easy to self police. Dyno protests should be an option. Aero should be allowed, I've been watching AI for the last 5 seasons and many cars out here already have it. What about a tire limit over the course of a season? A minimum weight should be set to keep the super high end body parts out. 47car, you've definitely got my attention and I have a car ready to go. We just need some people to race against. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacovini Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I love it! Great energy Corey! Anything goes in AIX...heck, everybody can agree to only have blue cars if they want!...big wings, no wings, Hoosiers, Goodyears, ABS, no ABS, big brakes, stock brakes, power limits, higher weights, gutting, no gutting, no pros,...whatever! That's the beauty of AIX. A gentlemen's agreement is likely only good if everyone is a gentleman and agrees to the deal, however. The deal would suck as soon as someone said..."I don't like the deal and I'm kicking everybody's butt with my 850 HP and other non-agreed upon parameters that are AIX legal." What if you took the $4k in prize money and covered the entry fees for the first 10 racers who signed up along with a $500 prize for the race winners. I bet we'd see at least 10 cars wearing the American Iron windshield banner and really jump start the West Coast action. Just a thought... -=- Todd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacovini Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 ...oh, and there should be free ice cream after the summer races. That's a rule everyone generally likes. (Texas folk love it.) -=- Todd PS- Chocolate AND Vanilla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
47car Posted March 17, 2011 Author Share Posted March 17, 2011 I agree that Hoosiers can get very expensive, especially if you're not winning. I'd be willing to do this if you could secure some good tire contingency. I don't care if the spec tire is a 225 Fusion HRi as long there is an opportunity to offset some cost for front runners. I would also like to see an 8.7/1 power limit. This is fairly easy to self police. Dyno protests should be an option. Aero should be allowed, I've been watching AI for the last 5 seasons and many cars out here already have it. What about a tire limit over the course of a season? A minimum weight should be set to keep the super high end body parts out. 47car, you've definitely got my attention and I have a car ready to go. We just need some people to race against. Awesome to hear Timmay! I am sure we can get a tire thing figured out. I think a tire limit makes sense too. I am totally in favor of keeping the cost down since I think that will translate into car counts. Who wants to buy a set of tires per weekend?? Definitly need a tire that has a nice flat performance curve like the RA1s but cheaper and/or a better contingency. Has anybody raced on Yoks? Any good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lelady Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I want to be involved!!! Tell me what I can do Corey!! Vicky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
47car Posted March 17, 2011 Author Share Posted March 17, 2011 I want to be involved!!! Tell me what I can do Corey!! Vicky Great! do you or a client have a car to race? If not maybe you can help with arranging tire contingency after we all settle on some tire prospects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05 Ross Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I think Vicky would be great in a promotional, organizational, compliance, social director capacity (nothing against her driving of course ) Ross Murray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGZOSTD Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 The Hoosier is the only way to go. Inspector Gadget, I get 2 weekends out my dots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-MAC Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I'm in. Lowering the pwr/wt ratio a point sounds good. Timmay, Come race AIX w/ Murray and me this weekend @ Infineon. Walton & Webber?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
47car Posted March 17, 2011 Author Share Posted March 17, 2011 I'm in. Lowering the pwr/wt ratio a point sounds good. Timmay, Come race AIX w/ Murray and me this weekend @ Infineon. Walton & Webber?? Great!!! 8.5:1? 8:1? What can you guys safely get out of your motors? Cant make infineon. We are slammed prepping three cars right now for the next BW event. Ryan's, mine and our new 69. Who can make the next BW event? If we can agree on at least the power level, that could be the first event of this new class. We could just stick with existing AI tires for this first event only in the interest of time and have a rule meeting at the event? Dinner and beer's on me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
47car Posted March 17, 2011 Author Share Posted March 17, 2011 Of course if everyone cant make BW on such short notice, we could do a conference call or goto meeting to get everybodies input on the rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmay Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 The Hoosier is the only way to go. Inspector Gadget, I get 2 weekends out my dots. I agree, I get 2 also. But if nobody else wants to run them in this class I'd be willing to switch. I'm in. Lowering the pwr/wt ratio a point sounds good. Timmay, Come race AIX w/ Murray and me this weekend @ Infineon. Walton & Webber?? Bmac, Are you in for sure? I'm signed up but the weather is iffy on Sat and Sun is a big storm. I'm on the fence right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05 Ross Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 I'm getting on the fence as well because of the weather forecast and work commitments, Timmay and B Mac please let me know if you are going tomorrow if possible, here or PM. If you cancel would you consider coming to Buttonwillow in 3 weeks? we can kick this thing off together. Ross Murray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trackboss Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Hmmm, might want to dust (or is it rust) off #33 and finish it. Corey, I could care less about the money at this point. Just give me a solid rule set intended for real race cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
47car Posted March 18, 2011 Author Share Posted March 18, 2011 Hmmm, might want to dust (or is it rust) off #33 and finish it. Corey, I could care less about the money at this point. Just give me a solid rule set intended for real race cars. Good to hear V! The rule set will be made by all the racers democratically so I really dont have control over that. I am sure it will be awesome though. Probably cant change too much about the cars off the bat since the season is upon us. Just the easy stuff, however, there is alot of talk about adopting some ST2 rules which may allow some of the REAL racey stuff which I think you are talking about. They may come with a power penalty though. How soon do you think you could get that thing running? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
47car Posted March 18, 2011 Author Share Posted March 18, 2011 Seems like we are definitely generating some interest here. Getting some traction! Right now, in the interest of time since BW is coming up quick and in the interest of our ultimate goal of car counts, we dont want to discourage any car from joining in asap. So, in that regard, I suggest adopting an open tire rule similar to ST2. This will allow guys like Timmay who already have Hoosiers to come dowm to BW w/o having to buy new rubber. We can figure out a penalty for Hoosiers easily and that will be needed since many of us will be on 275 toyos. What should the penalty be for Hoosier DOTs vs RA1s and others in like sizes? +.3 ? Doesnt have to be set in stone. Just a number to get us through the first race or two? Tire size? Who is running tires over 275s? Anybody? If so we can make a penalty for that. ST2 looks to be a +.4 when you step up from 275s to 315s. That makes sense right? Power? This is probably the most urgent because guys like Ryan and I still need to go to the DYNO. Since GPS tracking of power is largely unknown we should keep using the DYNO for now. It makes sense to keep that power change from AI subtle for now so as not to lose anyone. I suggest 8.7? Will that work for everyone? We can always bump it up for next season if that is the popular vote. Anyone that is ready to race this season please give your input if 8.7 wont work for you. This is gonna be good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
47car Posted March 18, 2011 Author Share Posted March 18, 2011 Christine! Where is Christine? No dashboards needed for this class! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacovini Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 I'm ok with this guys, however, it is NOT a new class. There are 15+ pages on this forum as to why we don't want to create another class. Interested West Coast racers are running AIX and are all collectively/democratically agreeing on the level of prep/parts they want. (This is done informally elsewhere. We've got some vintage AIX guys in other regions that run AIX with their buddies and on a handshake agree on what level of prep they are willing to race their cars but the overall points race is still within AIX. I don't care if you guys asterisk the folks who voted/agreed to the AIX Lite deal...Corey can manage that. I've reached out to Corey and asked him to asisst with the AI Director role on the West Coast to help Adam out. If this is what it is going to take to get the birthplace of AI back up to the field size as other regions, let's do it!! It's an interesting twist... When (that's not "if", that's "when") someone doesn't want to shake hands on the gentlemen's agreement and run the AIX Lite package...they will still be able to. Great energy Corey...you guys have some awesome video coverage and that will help grow the series too. Hope to have you on board!!! -=- Todd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmay Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 I'm in. Lowering the pwr/wt ratio a point sounds good. Timmay, Come race AIX w/ Murray and me this weekend @ Infineon. Walton & Webber?? I'm out this weekend. The forecast gets worse every time I look at it. Probably going to go to BW you should come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
47car Posted March 18, 2011 Author Share Posted March 18, 2011 I'm ok with this guys, however, it is NOT a new class. There are 15+ pages on this forum as to why we don't want to create another class. Interested West Coast racers are running AIX and are all collectively/democratically agreeing on the level of prep/parts they want. (This is done informally elsewhere. We've got some vintage AIX guys in other regions that run AIX with their buddies and on a handshake agree on what level of prep they are willing to race their cars but the overall points race is still within AIX. I don't care if you guys asterisk the folks who voted/agreed to the AIX Lite deal...Corey can manage that. I've reached out to Corey and asked him to asisst with the AI Director role on the West Coast to help Adam out. If this is what it is going to take to get the birthplace of AI back up to the field size as other regions, let's do it!! It's an interesting twist... When (that's not "if", that's "when") someone doesn't want to shake hands on the gentlemen's agreement and run the AIX Lite package...they will still be able to. Great energy Corey...you guys have some awesome video coverage and that will help grow the series too. Hope to have you on board!!! -=- Todd Yes, this is not a class. It is just a group of guys having some fun with some decent prize money attached to that specific group of guys. AIX cars are welcomed of course. That reminds me, this "group" needs a name. Any ideas? AIX Lite descrides the group but I am not feelin that one. Sounds like a lite beer. Todd, did you get my PM about the director's role? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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