West coast AI2!! 4K in prize money and YOU make the rules!!!

[z28racergirl]

Again, please explain why we're ditching the AI rules as they stand for 2011. If you want to run slightly more power (8.7:1 torque?) - why is that? We've had the 9:1 and 9.5:1 forever. If its the tires? Why?

 

I'll say it again. I'm not rebuilding an engine and paying for extensive dyno tuning JUST to race you guys who are 40 hp out of my range. I am a girl, have no "boy parts", so I really don't understand this sudden 2011 NEED for slightly more hp. And even slightly less torque, if that's the number you're looking to change. Why bother?

 

Seems like you first wanted to bail to race ST to piggy-back on the group already there because of dwindling AI entries. To me, that makes sense that YOU'D need to change your build to run where you perceive the larger amounts of entries. But do you understand that by creating a 3rd AI class you're further watering down the pool? All the old-timers like Wheeler and Vageli and I (and others) will be out of luck. And will be running AI.

 

To me you ARE proposing giving AI the finger. It doesn't make sense at all in my little mind. I've asked and I'll ask again - please explain! I'm up for a GoToMeeting or whatever if that's best but since we've got a "conversation" going here already on the web, I think we should continue here.

 

Thanks Corey.

 

Christine

[tacovini]

[tacovini]

Ok...ok....As much as I'd love to see how this unfolds, I am compelled to explain this a little bit from my National Director perspective, and what I think the issues are in West Coast AI.

 

But first, a few clarifications for Christine (and all).

 

a) the rules haven't changed a whole bunch, in fact, most people are not happy BECAUSE the rules haven't changed much.

 

b) yes, the rules were released late in the off season (December?), however, I like to think that because the rules didn't change much, that folks wouldn't sit out a few season due to release tardiness.

 

Next, some Do's & Don'ts for the American Iron Nation.

 

a) NASA just went out and spent a ton of money to put uniform windshield banners on all AI cars across the nation....unification...it's working. Stick to the Big 3...AIX/AI/CMC. Just DO it.

 

b) the series is stronger as a unified ruleset, whichever region you go to. We DO NOT want different AI rules in different regions. We are going to great lengths to achieve consistency across the country. As a rule, We DO NOT want to have splinter AI regions doing their own thing where the Rocky Mountain guys all want AI cars to be Mustangless, unrestricted LSX Camaros...or the Midwest Region to all be dashless, Fox Bodied Mustangs. One American Iron Nation. One American Iron ruleset.

 

c) We DO want to improve car count. Car count is King. Car count brings out more cars. Car count is where the fun begins. Nobody wants to come to the track, if there isn't anyone to race.

 

d) We DO allow people to run performance parameters LESS than what is allowed, just not MORE. (ie- 9.5" wheel width maximum....9.5:1 HP limit...you can run less....but you can't exceed those numbers anywhere in the country...per the rules right now. In AIX, all the things Corey proposes for consensus are legal.

 

So why are there no West Coast AI cars anymore? Here is my personal diagnosis, in order of importance/reasoning.

 

1) Financial - #1 reason folks don't go racing is that they don't have the disposable cash. California has been hit hard in this crisis. You can blame it on the rest of the reasons, but it more than likely comes back to financial being the root cause.

 

2) Lack of Leadership - with no real AI car count, and a rag-tag-two-or-three-car-field (nothing against the guys who do show), there's no love and AI becomes an "also there" group. Not good considering we usually have some of the biggest egos in NASA racing. Nothing on Adam Ginsberg, the regional AI/CMC Director, but when he is at the track, his priority has been to his 10+ CMC cars...they are the American Iron critical mass right now. We need to change that.

 

3) Run Groupings - also a result of #2, AI has not had their own run group and has reportedly had to run with small bore, much slower cars. Very doable, but not conducive to stretching our AI legs...frustrating for many of the West Coast guys. We need to get the car count back up to 20+ AI/CMC/FFR V8 Thunder group.

 

4) The I-Want Syndrome - Many folks on the West Coast want more power...they were tickled with the notion of AI2. Many with the I-Want Syndrome want Hoosiers...and they want other things that they want for their car...regardless of #1 above and the additional financial cost to others. By the time you get down to #4 on the list above, the I-Want urges become so great that they give up altogether.

 

5) Schedule - NorCal & SoCal are two regions 5 hours apart. Many want to stay local and not travel to the other region...even though it is only 3-6 hours away. (I'm generalizing) The leaders in those regions have gone to great lengths to have a West Coast challenge series for North & South, and have made sure that the schedules never conflicted. However, getting AI racers to commit to a set regional schedule due to items 1-4 above, has been tough recently. So we have one and two AI racers in the North one weekend...in the South another weekend...no real regional season points chase. Very fractured. This is NOT the case in other regions!

 

6) The Chevy powered Mustang. -Unfortunately, the biggest concentration of LSX powered Mustangs were built or being built in California. This was a major rules change to keep homogenius cars. There is no doubt, a disappointed population on the West Coast who were not happy with that decision, and whether you support the decision or not, the unhappiness did wash over onto other racers. (We just didn't feel that was the direction we wanted the national series to go in.)

 

So...why allow Corey to organize a core group of AI racers into a gentlemen's agreement on a limited AIX prep season?

 

1) When there are one or two AI entries, you can only go up from there!

 

2) Restores leadership, brings back the AI camaraderie. Corey still reports in to Adam regionally, however, Corey reports to me nationally...for an AI "seat at the table". Corey IS the aftermarket, and can represent a lot of American Iron racers on the West Coast. We need his input.

 

3) With a 10+ CMC field and a 5+ AI(X) field, you now are reaching critical mass where a Thunder group can be run with other V8 monsters such as FFR or ST.

 

4) Temporarily fixes the I-Want Syndrome...."you want Hoosiers? Have at it." (They are legal in AIX.) "You want 8:1 power? get all your buddys to agree to it, manage it amongst yourselves and have at it. Heck...here's a bunch of TraqMates to help police it! Don't hurt yourself!" "You don't want to run AIX or make any changes to your AI car?? Stay in AI...but now battle with 5-10 AI cars (vs. zero) as well as 10-15 CMC2 cars...which are inching up to AI power levels BTW...you've been on the bench for 3 years Mr. Flyon DeWall, let's see how you compete with the new CMC!"

 

5) Bring the LSX powered Mustangs back...they are AIX legal. Always have been. Always will! (More Cars...)

 

6) Until the car count is restored, the arguments about which tire, or which power level or anything else is moot. Without car count, it is literally bench racing...and sadly, that is what California AI has become...Bench Racing. We need people to get off the bench and come to the next event...and the event after...and the one after that. The biggest bird you can flip to the series is to just stay at home. If it's due to that #1 reason of Financial, we completely understand. Come on out and help out anyway. Have a few beers with your buddies. Help Corey and folks manage things...for the racers, by the racers! I think what Corey is saying is we can work thru most of the issues pretty easily if we just get the band back together again.

 

PS - For those that want to make a living racing and are looking for hundreds of thousands of dollars in product endorsements and race winnings, there are other series out there for you...I think a couple guys have already gone that route and we wish them well in their endeavors. If you want grassroots ponycar racing with like-minded people...NASA American Iron is the place to party!

 

-=- Todd Covini

[nape]

If you want grassroots ponycar racing with like-minded people...NASA American Iron is the place to party!

 

-=- Todd Covini

 

OMG, I agree with Todd.

[47car]

Here is an update for those interested. This is just a starting point for the BW race and will be modified or added to as needed.

 

8.3:1 baseline HP/TQ level. From there we will add mod factors like ST2 does. Here are the Mod factors so far:

 

Any brand of tire can be used.

Tire width- 275 width is base, 295s = +.2 mod factor, 315s = +.4

Tire compound- Toyo, Hancook, Nitto DOTs are base. BFG Kumho +.1, Hoosier Goodyear 'R's +.2, 'A's, Slicks +.4

No ABS is base, unmodified OE ABS +.2, race ABS +.4

Syncromesh trans with OE 2nd 3rd 4th gear ratios is base, non stock 2,3,4 ratios +.3, dog ring +.1

Ride height- Nothing below 3"'

Track- AI rules + 1" for 295s and 2'' for 315s

Suspension- OE double A-arm or Strut is base, aftermarket SLA +.1

Brakes- 13" front rotor 4 piston caliper is base, 14" and/or 6 piston +.1

 

Example: My car, 94 mustang. I would start with an 8.3 base then add +.3 for close ratio trans, +.1 for SLA and +.1 for 14" brakes. That would put me at a 8.8:1 weight to power or torque max ratio. As you can see by the zinger for my tranny, I did not come up with the rules Most of these were thought up by Ross (who has alot of racing experience) and then voted on by the group.

 

We all think that this is a good starting point and will allow alot of cars to join the group without having to buy stuff to fit into a very specific ruleset.

[z28racergirl]

Thanks Todd.

 

Guess I'm old school. I'll put a dash in before I leave the AI class. Yes I'm a bench racer. Yes I was hit hard by the economy and I reprioritized. So yes, according to your post, my input is moot. I'm on a shoestring budget. I'm not paying for a new engine. New (different) tires. New BS points classification system. AI was simple and easy and how my car is built. I'm less and less interested in this AI Cowboy class guys - sorry to say. Again, I'm a bench racer so apparently my point is moot. And I totally understand why - I've been MIA for the last few years as the field has changed.

 

What happens IF I come run AI? Will I be the only AI car in the field? How can I qualify for Toyo bucks (if that's even our tire anymore or even a promo anymore, it's been so long I dunno). As one of the early die-hards who tried her best to support/grow/empower the class, the only GM in the field in the earliest days - what "status" are you going to award me as you are to Agent47?

 

Corey please don't take that personally! I think you are a terrific, stand-up dude. HOWEVER for years in AI I was run over and dominated by "the aftermarket $$$" aka Griggs (and Maximum too). They pushed and yelled and hollered and whined and forced rule changes - and then cheated when they couldn't get their way. But that business model just didn't pan out that well for NASA, did it? Where are those businesses now? But now, because Agent47 has a business license for Mustang parts - NASA National is going to give Agent47 this extra power and leeway and again let a business dictate our class rules? Is it because Agent47 is offering prize money and marketing opportunities to NASA? Well, I cannot offer that, I can only offer my future entry fees.

 

Again Corey, PLEASE do not take this personally! Or Todd, or anyone in NASA offices. (WHERE is Wheeler in all this?)

 

Thanks again, for listening - clarifying - talking - explaining. I feel like just as I was ready to start working again to get on the track, my buddies have bailed and I'm without anyone to play ball with. What would you guys suggest I do, if I refuse to pay for a new engine and new mods to become competitive in your AI2 class? What do the other "low buck-classic-tried n true" guys have to say? Wheeler, BMac, RyanW, Vagelli, Massey?

 

Sincerely, thanks again.

Christine

[tacovini]

Christine...that's the beauty in all this. AI hasn't changed or gone away. You can still come back and make a difference and play with all the other AI folks. Don't feel as though you need to have any whiz-bang parts. It's all about the car count and the field of racers. It's still AIX/AI/CMC....pick your poison and run what you have! There's a season championship on the line and let someone else try to take it away from you!!!

 

Hope I didn't come across as angry at all, just stating my opinion. If you're in it to win it...then let's hear it!

 

-=- Todd

 

PS - I'm heading to NorCal in the AM for a week and will be in downtown San Francisco. If you guys want to get together somewhere downtown or in the East Bay to hammer thru some of this stuff, send me a PM or a cell phone call. Adam has my #. (I know that Corey and Ross are down in LA/LB, so it may not work. But I would love to get together with any West Coast AI folks to hear them out to make this work!!!

[Adam Ginsberg]

Christine -

 

Let me clarify something.....Corey isn't asking for rules changes to the AI class. There is no AI2 class. From NASA's perspective, they are running in the AIX class, so, to a certain extent, nothing has changed. What racers chose to agree upon, between themselves, is up to them. Provided all of those cars are legal by AIX rules, it's A-OK with NASA, and with me.

 

If you, or Jason, enter in AI, you'd race AI, plain and simple. There are other drivers that plan to race AI this year, so you would not be alone.

 

I really hope to see you, Jason, and your Camaro this year.

[asifnyc]

hey Todd, I'd love to be a fly on the wall if there is some get together to discuss rules/etc. I'm in the east bay...

[47car]

hey Todd, I'd love to be a fly on the wall if there is some get together to discuss rules/etc. I'm in the east bay...

 

We will be discussing the rules for this new group at BW, april 10 since quite a few of us are Socal guys. You are more than welcome to come down and be a part of it as is anyone else that would like to run with us in the near future. We want to structure the rules to accomodate as many cars as possible. I believe Todd may be there as well.

[z28racergirl]

Thank you Everybody - again - for all of the continued clarification! If Corey and a few other dudes want to do something wacky, I guess more power to them. At least they'll have AI banners on their cars and that's what counts to get new folks racing with us.

 

I will continue with AI as planned. I have my physical in a couple of weeks and will submit everything to renew my license, Jason should be following suit shortly as well. We WILL be out in AI in 2011. It may not be until Oct but we're going to do it. All of this discussion has really spurred me on. I thank all of you, again.

 

If you can believe it, I'm going to the Fabulous Fords show at Knotts on the 10th so I cannot attend BW even without the AI car. It's a work thing. We sell Mustang parts. Sigh. (Of course, no fun racing parts, but whatevs.)

 

I look forward to the future with you guys and wish all the best at the BW event coming up. Long Live American Iron and NASA.

 

Cheers,

Christine

[coupe331]

Christine,

I’m happy about this new AI “thing” because I’ll get to race against 4-5 other cars next weekend. At the beginning of the year it was looking like it was going to be just Corey and I in AI. I hope regular AI does come back to the west coast and I’ll race in “regular” AI then.

 

For next weekend I’m going to run 275 Toyos and I bumped my HP/TQ up to be at 8.4/1. To get my power up I just replaced parts I had on my car that killed power for the 9.5/1 and 9.0/1 AI rules such as my Tbody, flex fan, adjusted the timing, intake tube, and I leaned it out some. None of this cost me any money besides the dyno time since I had all the other stuff from when my car was a street car. I didn’t have to build a new motor.

 

I may not have the best setup for this new AI thing but at least I’ll be racing somebody instead of nobody and for me right now all I want to do is race…….

[pederb]

Any entry list for BW been posted anywhere?

 

Cheers

[47car]

Any entry list for BW been posted anywhere?

 

Cheers

 

Hi Peder.

 

as far as I know....

 

Ross

Corey

Ryan

Steve

Tim

 

should be some good fun. I just heard that Tim Gilpin's car may be coming out of retirement and driven by Bryan Rogers!

[pederb]

Any entry list for BW been posted anywhere?

 

Cheers

 

Hi Peder.

 

as far as I know....

 

Ross

Corey

Ryan

Steve

Tim

 

should be some good fun. I just heard that Tim Gilpin's car may be coming out of retirement and driven by Bryan Rogers!

 

Sweet

[tacovini]

Good Stuff! Unfortunately, I was unable to stay in California like I planned and had to come home to Houston yesterday. I wish I could've hung out with you guys at Buttonwillow and talk about this stuff. Adam, Corey and the rest of you know where I'm coming from. Looks like a good field and I can't wait for Adam's usual state of the art race write-up with photos that he is known so well for!

 

I'm off to the Rocky Mountain event next weekend because it appears many of our American Iron brotheren are losing the faith there and need to be healed! With this West Coast resurgence, we don't want Rocky Mountain to be our next low car count "loss leader"!!!

 

-=- Todd

[47car]

Our first race today was fantastic! I have never seen this many guys racing this closely in my days in AI west. Everyones best lap of the race was nearly within one second and the group stayed tight nearly the whole race. We got some great footage too that I will post soon.

[pederb]

Any results, comments anything from the weekend?

[tacovini]

Peder...if you're referring to the Buttonwillow weekend in California, I believe Adam is waiting on some pictures to complete the race writeup.

 

If you're referring to the Pikes Peak Int'l Raceway weekend in Colorado, I'm off to join them tomorrow evening and will report back next week!

 

-= Todd