s2k4TTC Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 Driving my friends 99 turbo miata in TT this past weekend and wrecked it pretty good. Thought I did right my going off track right to not hit Jimmy Plattis but the Mini spun in the grass and stopped in my path, once I hit the grass there was nothing I can do to avoid the impact. But I would like to see what you guys think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboShortBus Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 This occurred during a combined HPDE-4/Time Trial session. The drivers in the video are as follows: Al - red Mini Cooper S, HPDE-4 Jimmy - gray Mitsubishi Evo, TTA (no contact) Rene - in-car Miata, TTD As I discussed with Jimmy, his pass on Rene at turn 10 (which is a handful when no other cars are around, and is a corner that regularly claims cars, including one of mine, although I am NFG behind the wheel) initially appeared to be a bit late, although Jimmy told me that his in-car video showed that the pass was timed properly (I have not yet seen this video). Either way, I felt that the pass may not have been absolutely necessary, as the track was not fast all weekend, this session occurred in the afternoon (hottest time of day, so nobody was fast), and Jimmy was carrying a passenger (so the extra 200 lbs would ensure that he would not be fast). I do understand, though, that Jimmy and Rene have a good on- and off-track knowledge of each other, they are both very experienced drivers, and they trust each other in a competitive environment. It is likely just an unfortunate combination of circumstances that Rene's view of the spinning Mini was blocked by Jimmy's Evo, and his evasive action to miss the Evo's braking in an atypical location (you are usually at WOT at that spot) would have otherwise been fine, if not for the spinning Mini that was already in the grass. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obzezzed350 Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 I agree with you Mark. Though the walls they had up for the construction messed me up all weekend, it was near impossible to see through the turn when you couldnt see the apex as at the turn in point. Its a shame the was contact with all that open area, pure bad luck I say.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awdracer Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 I see two unrelated incidents that individually would normally be minor issues...but there's still a little pain to dish out. 1) The Mini gets some fault for spinning as always. 2) The Miata gets some fault for not managing the speed differential relative to the car in front. That said, the Miata did the right thing when the EVO slowed unexpectedly. He turned the wheel and avoided the contact. Lots of times you see drivers fixate on the problem and run into it. It's an unfortunate incident for an HPDE group no matter how you slice it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s2k4TTC Posted May 24, 2011 Author Share Posted May 24, 2011 I see two unrelated incidents that individually would normally be minor issues...but there's still a little pain to dish out. 1) The Mini gets some fault for spinning as always. 2) The Miata gets some fault for not managing the speed differential relative to the car in front. That said, the Miata did the right thing when the EVO slowed unexpectedly. He turned the wheel and avoided the contact. Lots of times you see drivers fixate on the problem and run into it. It's an unfortunate incident for an HPDE group no matter how you slice it. And is why I wish NASA FL had more TT guys so that we can have our own session as to sharing it with H4 guys who are just out there doing lap's. TT guy's are always at speed right from the get go, H4 guys take's them a lil while I guess. Suck's either way, Mark did not mention that AL driving the mini had never been to homestead before this past weekend. I don't know if any one gave him a heads up about T10 but he sure has an Idea now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 hard to see on the video but what is off to the driver's left side of the track over there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboShortBus Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 hard to see on the video but what is off to the driver's left side of the track over there? More often than not, this: Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 ok, that explains the reluctance to aim where the dust/Mini was then... absent that wall, that'd been my move - to aim left / behind the Mini/dustball instead of trying to get to the right of it Do you think a spin in that direction (to the left, just off track) from where Rene was would've ended in the wall? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboShortBus Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 Do you think a spin in that direction (to the left, just off track) from where Rene was would've ended in the wall? 100% of them do. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obzezzed350 Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 What Mark said...here is an example.. Best thing to do is to throw it out in the infield grass to right, there are usually no parked cars out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s2k4TTC Posted May 25, 2011 Author Share Posted May 25, 2011 Yes usually there are no parked cars out there, and with the tires I was on had I tried to go track left, I would have ended up in the wall hands down. I think I did right by going right to avoid hitting Jimmy. Just so happen that the mini also thought it was a good idea to park in the grass. Wrong place wrong time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedWorksRacing Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 I was right behind Rene when this happened. Rene did what anyone in that situation would do, the right thing was to put the car in the grass. Going left instead of right (to the grass) was just not going to happen. The miata was already loose and that would have deff put it in the wall. It was just a bad situation. I am just glad that no one was hurt. Cars can be fixed and replaced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varkwso Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 And I thought we had all the fun. Once Rene went in the grass the options got limited quickly. The EVO definitely blocked his view of the incident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperkins Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 So no penalties? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laze1 Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 WOW that was a hard hit!!!! ...hope everybody is ok...after the shock/soreness goes away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboShortBus Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 So no penalties? Since you brought it up, who would receive your vote? I'll compare it to the conversations that I had with the drivers on Saturday. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 yep, I don't know that I would place any blame on anyone. I'm sure the Mini didn't willingly crash into the wall on the left and did what they could to keep from bouncing across the track, and Rene sure did what was right to attempt to avoid it. Unless I'm missing something... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboShortBus Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 The Mini actually never made it to the left side of the track. When I saw the high-res video from Rene's camera (YouTube's compression sucks), in the distance, you could see the Mini lose it at the exit of turn 10, then have a bit of a tank-slapper on the asphalt and in the grass before finally going into the grass on the right, where he awaited Rene's arrival. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
32EVOIX Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Firstly, I want to thank Rene for not getting into me, I will say that Rene and I have been driving together for years and I would have never executed that pass with anyone else. I have outmost confidence in Rene’s ability to judge the situation and he did do the correct maneuver to take the grass in this situation. With the wall being there I could not see past the apex and as I got around, the mini was doing pirouettes in front of me, I had no choice but to lift and tap the brakes, but at those speeds there is no way Rene could have stopped in time. The chances of the mini being there with all that grass are extremely rare, so I guess I would have to say it was one of those things. But it sucks any time something like this happens, I am just happy nobody was hurt. That being said, we have an extremely tight group in TT everyone knows each other, i.e. Rene and I, for many years, and since we run with HPDE 4, we are extremely careful who comes on the track with us. So my question is who checked the mini out prior to coming on track? Arguably one of the most dangerous turns known, a dusty slippery track, and lack of knowledge of the track, not trying to blame anyone but I sure would like to know. And since we are on the subject, I don’t like the HPDE 3/4/TT sessions, I think they are a waste of time and completely unfair to the TT guys, not to mention dangerous. Saturday the first session is not timed, the last is a combo and not timed so we get 2 sessions in the heat of the day? I do have the video and I will post it as soon as Ramon edits it P.S. Mark, I did get the second fastest lap of the day in that session in TTS with a TTA car and a passenger. Just saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboShortBus Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 P.S. Mark, I did get the second fastest lap of the day in that session in TTS with a TTA car and a passenger. Just saying. I think you just called all of our TTS drivers "weak." Just saying, as well... Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
32EVOIX Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 hard to see on the video but what is off to the driver's left side of the track over there? More often than not, this: Mark Dude is that the car from some years ago? I don't remember, age and that sort of thing, you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obzezzed350 Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 So whats the status on Vic's car? Totaled? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
32EVOIX Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 So whats the status on Vic's car? Totaled? No I don't think so, it did not look that bad but historically my judgment on damage assessment has been poor. I would have made an awful body man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboShortBus Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Dude is that the car from some years ago? I don't remember, age and that sort of thing, you know. That is the exact result of my first day in HPDE-1 back in November 2007, thanks in part to Homestead turn 10. SVO purists everywhere are still throwing up in their shoes. Note to self: Tire walls are less forgiving than you would think. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
32EVOIX Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 This occurred during a combined HPDE-4/Time Trial session. The drivers in the video are as follows: Al - red Mini Cooper S, HPDE-4 Jimmy - gray Mitsubishi Evo, TTA (no contact) Rene - in-car Miata, TTD As I discussed with Jimmy, his pass on Rene at turn 10 (which is a handful when no other cars are around, and is a corner that regularly claims cars, including one of mine, although I am NFG behind the wheel) initially appeared to be a bit late, although Jimmy told me that his in-car video showed that the pass was timed properly (I have not yet seen this video). Either way, I felt that the pass may not have been absolutely necessary, as the track was not fast all weekend, this session occurred in the afternoon (hottest time of day, so nobody was fast), and Jimmy was carrying a passenger (so the extra 200 lbs would ensure that he would not be fast). I do understand, though, that Jimmy and Rene have a good on- and off-track knowledge of each other, they are both very experienced drivers, and they trust each other in a competitive environment. It is likely just an unfortunate combination of circumstances that Rene's view of the spinning Mini was blocked by Jimmy's Evo, and his evasive action to miss the Evo's braking in an atypical location (you are usually at WOT at that spot) would have otherwise been fine, if not for the spinning Mini that was already in the grass. Mark Here you go Mark, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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