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Couple questions re: rules clarification


Neon2dmaX

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Greg:

 

I'm still a little unclear about a couple rules.

 

(1) Is removal of the heater included in a "gutted" front? In other words if someone has gutted the front and rear of the interior, and has removed the heater core, does he add +4 or +5 points? It this issue relevant for the Spec Neon which is automatically classed in "E" group, and has a spec minimum weight (with driver)?

 

(2) If one adds a header (+2) which has the effect of altering the down pipe, does he add +2 or +3?

 

BTW... stopped in at Cal Speedway. Saw your car there, but didn't see you. Met Ted Severns... tried to give him a few tips that would help slow him down a bit, but he refused to pay attention.

 

Neon2dmaX

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Dave,

Removal of the heater core would not be included in gutted front. So, if you gutted the front and rear of a vehicle, it would be +4 pts. And, you would get +1 more for removal of the heater core.

 

Now, if your car is one of the NASA Spec racecars that has been given an ultimate class limitation (ie. SN = TTE, SER= TTD, SRT=TTC, etc), then the highest possible class the car would be put in is listed. And, as long as you follow all of the rules of the Spec class, then it doesn't matter if the car would actually be classed higher based on the TT points system. Basically, since we know what kind of hp and track times these Spec cars can run, it's actually a better method of classing than the points system, and prevents them from having to run in too high a class. If a Spec racecar falls into a lower TT class based on the TT classing points system, then the car may be used in the lower class (this is allowed because not all Spec racecars take advantage of all of the possible upgrades allowed under the Spec rules. But, in general, a Spec racecar will fall into the designated class by either method).

 

It looks like we have a total of 5 possible points for a complete exhaust system switch: +2 header, +1 downpipe, +1 removal of cat, +2 catback exhaust. So, the answer to your question would be +3 for header and downpipe (but again, for a Spec Neon car, you would max out at TTE as long as the car was in compliance with SN rules).

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Greg:

 

Met Ted Severns... tried to give him a few tips that would help slow him down a bit, but he refused to pay attention.

 

Neon2dmaX

 

I did pay attention. Didn't you see my times...... It's all your fault!!!

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  • 4 weeks later...
Dave,

Removal of the heater core would not be included in gutted front. So, if you gutted the front and rear of a vehicle, it would be +4 pts. And, you would get +1 more for removal of the heater core.

 

Now, if your car is one of the NASA Spec racecars that has been given an ultimate class limitation (ie. SN = TTE, SER= TTD, SRT=TTC, etc)... [portions deleted].

 

It looks like we have a total of 5 possible points for a complete exhaust system switch: +2 header, +1 downpipe, +1 removal of cat, +2 catback exhaust. So, the answer to your question would be +3 for header and downpipe (but again, for a Spec Neon car, you would max out at TTE as long as the car was in compliance with SN rules).

 

I think that should be +2 +1 +1 +1 for a total of 5. (Or is the total 6?)

 

Now, regarding the comment you made in your recent email to all TT participants:

"Let's discuss what is not vague in our rules. It all boils down to rule number 3:

The intent of these rules is to provide mandates to ensure that all vehicles are modified within clearly established limits, so as to ensure an even platform, in which a contest of driving skill may provide the most talented drivers with great rewards. If a modification is not specifically allowed by the rules, it is prohibited unless permission is obtained from the NASA TT Director. A permitted item cannot be modified to perform a prohibited function. Vehicle legality is the sole responsibility of the driver.

 

If a modification is not specifically allowed by the rules, it is prohibited, unless permission is obtained from the NASA TT Director. Doesn't sound too vague to me. This rule allows drivers to ask about questionable modifications. An example would be rolling the lip on a fender. I have stated to all that this is considered a legal modification, as long as the external body is left pristine. There are four types of modifications that I can think of: 1) for performance, 2) for looks, 3) for safety, 4) for durability. There are some performance mods that are not assessed points, such as brake ducts and short throw shifters. If you have mods that are not listed to get points, and you are not sure if they have been OK'd by the TT Director (for all participants to use), then you need to ask. Mods that are for safety or durability can cross over into the performance realm, and if you aren't sure, then you need to ask.

 

A permitted item cannot be modified to perform a prohibited function. If you are unclear about what this means, then you better ask, because it is far from vague. It ties in nicely with the line above. You can't make a prohibited modification legal by modifying something that is legal otherwise. An example would be slotting the bolt holes for your coilovers or struts in order to gain negative camber, but avoid the two points for camber plates or bolts."

 

The issue of slotted struts concerns me somewhat. On the early Neon some of the Koni struts were slotted from the factory and others were not. (any I am not entirely sure why the difference.) In any event, how would such a situation be handled.

 

Also, for a rule clarification, if one were to convert from fuel injection to carb, does the two points assessment also cover removal of emissions equipment?

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Hi Dave,

Are you ever going to come out to the track? When is that car going to be ready?

 

As far as the exhaust system points are concerned, the correct total is 5. The +2 on the Catback was just a typo--but the total of 5 is correct.

 

Your answer to the question about the slotted Koni's on the Neon will depend on which Neon we are talking about. As you know, we gave different base classifications to the Neons depending on SOHC/DOHC/ACR status. I don't have a problem with updating or backdating a car within a given base classification. However, this does not mean that one can update/backdate to the same car model (ie. "Neon"), if it is in a different base class. So, here's the example. Let's say you have a SOHC ACR Neon that didn't come with slotted struts, but you can show that the prior years SOHC ACR does have slotted struts (ie. they are both in the same base class), I would allow replacement with the slotted struts from the prior year without a points penalty. Alternatively, you could slot the struts you have, but it would have to be to the same extent as the other car's, and the burden of proof would be on you to show how they are equal.

 

Regarding the switch to a carb from fuel injection, it depends on which emission equipment you are talking about--egr valve probably ok. Cat. converter-no. I would have to look at the specifics.

 

Greg

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