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Race seat without roll bar or harness - Safe and/or legal?


patinum

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I just purchased couple of race seats (Sparco Evo's) for my S2000. I will be putting in a roll bar with harness bar and full 6 point harnesses. However, my roll bar is still being built and won't be ready for my next race.

 

So my question is - is it safe to use a race seat with OEM belts and no roll bar? And less importantly, is it legal for NASA TT?

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Race seats are designed to be used with a harness, not a factory 3 point. The factory belts are designed to work at certain angles across your body. Those angles change with a race seat. I dont care if it is NASA legal, from a safety standpoint dont do it. Wait for the bar.

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It is NASA legal.

 

We have an OMP fiberglass FIA race seat (still date current) in our TimeTrial car using the factory 3-point belts.... but we also have it set up to work better with the seat (hard to explain and I don't have a photo right now to show what I mean but it is looped into the seat and buckled through the seat hole so it is properly snug if that makes any sense)

 

People can argue about this all day long but it is legal and comes down to what you are comfortable with on a personal level IMHO.

 

On the flip side, most 'race' belts are NOT street legal (something to think about for those who might also daily drive or drive to/from the track in their time trial cars)

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I know of a TTD Mustang in my driveway that has an aluminum racing seat, no roll bar/cage, and the stock 3-point belts, and it's legal. Is it smart? Not really. Neither am I. I plan to install the cage before this car goes on track again, though.

 

TT is governed by the HPDE safety rules. If it is fine in HPDE, then it is fine in TT. Of course, there could be exceptions (like an array of sharp sticks pointed at the driver, etc.), so it is best to submit your proposal to your region's tech inspector before your next event.

 

It is also your best interests to educate yourself about all applicable rules in the CCR, as the tech inspectors are only human and could be incorrect about an interpretation. Bring a copy of the CCR with you.

 

Mark

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It is NASA legal.

 

We have an OMP fiberglass FIA race seat (still date current) in our TimeTrial car using the factory 3-point belts.... but we also have it set up to work better with the seat (hard to explain and I don't have a photo right now to show what I mean but it is looped into the seat and buckled through the seat hole so it is properly snug if that makes any sense)

 

I think I know what you're talking about. Was researching and it seems like some people are using seat belt extenders (the kind made for fat people) to redirect the seat belt. And with this I can't see how this would be less safe than the same belt with an oem seat.

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I know of a TTD Mustang in my driveway that has an aluminum racing seat, no roll bar/cage, and the stock 3-point belts, and it's legal. Is it smart? Not really. Neither am I. I plan to install the cage before this car goes on track again, though.

 

TT is governed by the HPDE safety rules. If it is fine in HPDE, then it is fine in TT. Of course, there could be exceptions (like an array of sharp sticks pointed at the driver, etc.), so it is best to submit your proposal to your region's tech inspector before your next event.

 

It is also your best interests to educate yourself about all applicable rules in the CCR, as the tech inspectors are only human and could be incorrect about an interpretation. Bring a copy of the CCR with you.

 

Mark

 

Thanks. The first read of the CCR was a bit confusing for me - seems like we fall under HPDE rules for most of it but race standards for others. I'll be sure to study it more but really more concerned with safety than legality (although I'd obviously like both).

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Thanks. The first read of the CCR was a bit confusing for me - seems like we fall under HPDE rules for most of it but race standards for others. I'll be sure to study it more but really more concerned with safety than legality (although I'd obviously like both).

Per my interpretation, TT falls under HPDE rules only; the competition rules do not apply. However, I still refer to the passing guidelines from time to time.

 

Example: Since a roll cage is not required in HPDE, and TT falls under HPDE, then it is not required in TT (if A=B and B=C, then A=C). So, no requirement for a roll cage means that, if you want to install something resembling a roll cage, you can pretty much do whatever you want as long as it doesn't make the car less safe (such as the aforementioned sharp sticks pointing at the driver). Hell, make it out of PVC if you want; it's more than what the rules require (just don't attach your 5-point harnesses to the PVC, as that would fall under "less safe"). While the PVC example would be legal, it would be filed under "not too smart" and common sense should prevent you from doing such a thing in the first place.

 

Now, if an official states that TT falls under HPDE rules, but various competition rules could apply based on picking-and-choosing or whim, it isn't fair or consistent IMO. Maybe TT could reach the point in the near future where it might deserve its own section in the CCR.

 

Mark

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  • National Staff

I have seen cars with race seats and OEM 3-point seat belts sent home from tech instead of participating in HPDE, and I have seen cars with OEM seats and 4 point harnesses sent home as well. It all depends on the setup and the regional tech inspectors. As well, the Regional Director of any region has the authority to deny any vehicle access to the track if he/she does not feel that it is safe, regardless of what the CCR says.

 

 

2.12 Officials / Rules Hierarchy

This section is intended to clarify hierarchy among some officials and rules. Where there is a conflict, the following order should be used. Each item on this list supersedes the prior listed item whenever there is a conflict:

 Club Codes and Regulations

 Class Rules

 Local or Event Supplemental Rules

 Drivers‟ Meeting Information

 Orders From Officials

 Race Director

 Executive Director

 Medical Staff (with regards to patient care and their duties).

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I think I know what you're talking about. Was researching and it seems like some people are using seat belt extenders (the kind made for fat people) to redirect the seat belt. And with this I can't see how this would be less safe than the same belt with an oem seat.

 

 

We did not use any seat belt extenders. Our car is also a daily driver in the street (so only 3 point is street legal) Photos speak volumes so here is what I meant. The other end is buckled through the seat belt hole to the receptacle so that it can be snug/properly snug at the waist and 'locks' properly at the shoulder strap as intended for a factory belt. Also, our fiberglass seat would be w2w race legal until the end of 2012 with the FIA rating it has (does not YET require a seat back brace even if we used it in a w2w car)

 

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The typical consideration for a fixed-back seat without a roll bar is that you lose the benefit of the factory seat back, which are often designed to yield (i.e., fail) in the case of a rollover in order to provide survival space. A fixed-back seat won't do that, so if the roof does crush in a bad rollover the fixed-back seat may not be your friend. That's frequently the logic behind not allowing a fixed-back seat without sufficient rollover protection.

 

As Greg said, tech pass/fail decisions are made by regional personnel, so consult your local authorities.

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