srsmiata Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Hi, I am thinking of joining TT next year. I have a 94M. M stands for meat, and lots of it. This car has basically every option and it really ads up. Base weight is 2330 and I am closer to 2550. The fast miatas in TTE right now seem to be pretty well stripped looking race cars. I would prefer not spending the next two years stripping my car. If i meet the weight to HP ratio for TTF can I get re-classed based on a dyno run? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboShortBus Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 It is entirely possible that a base reclass could help you drop down a class or so. Carefully review the requirements for reclassing in the TT rules (type of dyno required, number of dyno runs, etc.) and submit that information, along with the desired minimum competition weight, to Greg G. via email. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 yep, its been done by a few and can certainly be done by others I would look at what you've got done to the car (or will have done when you're competing) and figure out what base class I needed to stay in F with that stuff on the car (if thats TTF, TTF* or TTF**, etc) and send in your desired base class in your email to Greg along with a range of achievable weights and horsepower levels, the other required data that's spelled out in the ruleset, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmiata Posted July 2, 2011 Author Share Posted July 2, 2011 Thanks for these responses. Say I was able to re class from TTE to TTF based on Dyno runs. I have read the rules and understand how the point systems work when you start in your natural base class, but do not understand how that would work for a reclass. In other words, assuming a totally stock (but heavy and low powered) 94 dyno tested and met the TTF class HP limits. Are you then limited to adding mods that do not effect HP? Sorry if this is a dumb question. IF the rules explain this it would be great if someone could help point that out to me. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboShortBus Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 When you receive a base reclass based on power and weight, you can no longer perform any modifications as listed in sections B and C. However, you also do not take any points for applicable modifications as listed in sections B and C. If you have any changes after the base reclass that involve items in sections B and C, then you need to re-submit for another base reclass. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWeber Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 Dyno reclass can help you for sure... Even my Spec Miata can run in TTF with street tires thanks to dyno reclass (BUT NOTE my SM is weak at only 109hp) gluck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmiata Posted July 2, 2011 Author Share Posted July 2, 2011 Thanks again for this guidance. This IS making sense now. So it sounds like the NASA TT folks will determine how/if to reclass me based on dyno/weight. How do they decide if the car is TTF or TTF* or whatever? Is it how close I am to the max HP/weight? ANyways after that, I can use my leftover points (however many that may be) for non Section B or Section C mods. Sound about right? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboShortBus Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 Thanks again for this guidance. This IS making sense now. So it sounds like the NASA TT folks will determine how/if to reclass me based on dyno/weight. How do they decide if the car is TTF or TTF* or whatever? Is it how close I am to the max HP/weight? Greg G. has a super-secret formula that determines how each type of car is reclassed based on weight and power. It is more closely guarded than the Colonel's recipe of 11 herbs and spices, so trying to guess at what your base reclass might be really is a futile effort. ANyways after that, I can use my leftover points (however many that may be) for non Section B or Section C mods. Sound about right? Thanks. Correct! Full details can be found in section 6.5 of the 2011 TT rules. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 1.) How do they decide if the car is TTF or TTF* or whatever? Is it how close I am to the max HP/weight? 2.) ANyways after that, I can use my leftover points (however many that may be) for non Section B or Section C mods. Sound about right? I added numbers just to make things clearer on #1, that is one factor sure. Really though your car is run through the process as if it were a new car being classed from square one, so things like suspension design, drivetrain layout, power, weight, and so on are all considered I know for sure, and there are other things I've yet to pry out of Greg If it was strictly by horsepower/weight ratio a car with a great suspension design would dominate but since those type cars aren't given numbers as close to the break points the cars that don't handle as well have a shot to make up time on the straights - ultimately putting both cars on as close to equal footing as can be done which puts it down to the driver as it should be #2 - yep, you can use the remainder of your points outside of those sections. For Section B & C, you just have to dyno under the number that Greg gives you at any given time, and your car must weigh over the minimum he gives you after any given session. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmiata Posted July 2, 2011 Author Share Posted July 2, 2011 Ken, this part of your post confused me a little: "so things like suspension design, drivetrain layout, power, weight, and so on are all considered" How can they consider suspension design for the re-class, if that is something I could potentially change after being given a new designation? Or did you mean the general suspension type that is on a given car, as opposed to whether I have height-adjustable coilovers vs something else... Scott. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 General suspension type - like say twin A-arm layout vs Macpherson Strut vs solid axle kinda stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboShortBus Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 On a reclass, a mid-engine car gets hit a little harder than a front-engine car of similar weight and power because it theoretically handles better, no matter the amount of modification. An AWD car would likely get hit harder as well. As for how much, nobody but Greg knows for sure. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hired wrench Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Don't do it without a LOT of thought first. You'll get tagged at a set weight and HP. So if you do ever move up due to modifications, you'll be stuck at a certain HP/WT. So a theoretical reclass to TTF**, mod points to TTD.... stuck at a TTF** HP/WT no matter what, unless you reclass. Then it gets interesting, because if you add some power and strip some weight you have to reclass again. So if you reclass to say TTE** and then add in the theoretical mod points from above, you're now in TTC stuck at a TTE** HP/WT. Which is win-able (based mostly on driver skill and set up) but tough. You have to look at what you'll gain and lose by doing it that way and what car you are starting with. The locked in HP and WT sucks. If you could rebase and then take points for mods from that point on like everyone else, it'd be great. Or, if you got a 5-7% allowance for every class above the reclass, it'd work great. You can get a TTx** reclass, but that leaves you 6 points shy of the max for the class, and that won't get you close to the HP/WT limit for the class. So you could be a TTx** reclass worse off HP/WT wise than a TTx car +19. It's an OK system, but it takes a lot of the numbers game out of your hands...... and then ties them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clydesdale Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 I'm not sure about the lower classes C-F, but Greg deducts HP from your reclass when you drop a class rather than stay in the same base class or higher. I'm not saying that it necessarily matters as in my case it came out to be more competitive to do base TTA than to do TTB*-- competitive in the relative sense as you still compete with cars that have bigger stickier tires, less weight and the same or more horsepower, but I digress. In my opinion reclassing only helps for the following: - Overweight with no desire to strip the car (your case) - Overbuilt engine with conservative horsepower (my case) Give it a try and see how it works out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmiata Posted July 5, 2011 Author Share Posted July 5, 2011 Geez. This is sounding less promising. I just know that I would like to compete without stripping the AC, Radio, PS, ABS, Power Windows, carpet, glass, etc. Which is pretty much what i have seen other miata TTers do to. Granted, they are making up for the full cage--but I already have the back half of a cage. If my roll bar/ back half of cage was not already welded into the car i would consider a different base car. Too late for that. So, I guess I will get a dyno next week and see where I stand. If have an equivalent weight to HP as the cars in TTF and I am forced to take a bunch of points I am not sure that would work either. Oh well. Thanks for all your input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 all the Evos and Subarus are pessimistic about the reclass deal because they feel they get hosed on it. Just like all the S2000 guys whine about hardtop shapes, etc, etc, etc PLENTY of cars gain from it, and I bet you've got a car that would come out fairly Remember TTF/PTF aren't rocketships or anything, and if you do have decent power/weight you may not have alot of points left for tires/suspension/etc (like my car). I recall Bill M's 99ish Miata doing pretty decent in TTF one year at Nationals You can do it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clydesdale Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 PLENTY of cars gain from it ... Some examples would be helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Anything not an AWD Turbo car But really any car that is A.) overweight compared to its listing and/or B.) doesn't spend its power modifcations efficiently will gain from a hp/weight reclass. The Miata that started this tread is a good candidate... I know I personally gained from my hp/weight reclass just a little bit. Could I probably make the same power points-free through blueprinting, extra compression, yadda yadda - probably could get close, but, with a great deal more expense. I'll take my hp/weight reclass and add a $100 intake and a $100 catback instead, thanks! Mine was a case of item B, especially after the catback points went from +1 to +2 which put me in TTE/PTE instead of F. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWeber Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 ^Its kinda funny how most TTF cars seem to be barely in F (like only a point or 2 or 3 to spare) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Why leave points on the table in ANY class? Spend 'em if you've got 'em Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboShortBus Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 ^Its kinda funny how most TTF cars seem to be barely in F (like only a point or 2 or 3 to spare) Why leave points on the table in ANY class? Spend 'em if you've got 'em Exactly...why wouldn't you max out your points in a class? Your opponents likely do. I can see leaving a point or two on the table if you have exhausted all of the 1 or 2 point modifications that would actually benefit your car, but beyond that, it makes no sense not to use them. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clydesdale Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Anything not an AWD Turbo car But really any car that is A.) overweight compared to its listing and/or B.) doesn't spend its power modifcations efficiently will gain from a hp/weight reclass. The Miata that started this tread is a good candidate... Looks like the same list as mine, I'll add one more scenario-- reclass a car that has an old engine that can't manage stock power numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmiata Posted July 7, 2011 Author Share Posted July 7, 2011 clydesdale, I think i may fit into both categories, fat, and underpowered. I have one cylinder that is pretty far off compression. I have been dying to know if that has translated into a serious HP loss. Looks like i will be at Thunderhill Sunday and will probably get a dyno to see where I stand. This has been a VERY helpful thread. Thank you all. Porky 94. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Things to keep in mind that you have that base miatas dont. LSD ABS (dont remember how many points this is to add) spoiler? Maybe real hard to you to sneak into TTF how you sit now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWeber Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 ^ yes, unless you plan to drive on 155 series wide street tires that end up looking more like you have 4 mini-spares on the car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.