donovan Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 You could always run 17" wheels!!! It is a choice to run 14" brakes that required the use of 18" wheels, you always had the choice to remove weight and/or get a better set of 13" brakes and/or better cooling! It was your choice to run 18" wheels. You are not required to run the 18's. DD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbodleimages Posted September 10, 2011 Author Share Posted September 10, 2011 lets be clear. for a long time there was no 13" brake pacakge and no 17" wheel package designed for the 2005+ Mustang chassis. The available off the shelf stuff from ford racing and other aftermarket vendors was all built around the 14" brake/18" wheels package. That is how the car was engineered. That is how my car is equipped. These components were approved by the rules. The car is legal. The tire is required if it remains the spec. a spec tire is there to create equal conditions for the entire class. requiring part of the class to pay $500 to $600 per set of tires more than the rest of the class when that price differential is a massive anomoly in the racing tire market is changing the conditions for one group over the other. Thats goes goes against the entire idea of spec rules. Again, my complaint is not that an 18 costs more than a 17. Thats expected. When its a 10% as the industry standard and a 40% increase for the spec tire, its clearly unfair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpoz27 Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 Rob, seriously. Contact Ryan Detling at Jongbloed. He can build you a nice 17" wheel that will clear 14" brakes with ease. They have very little drop center and offer TONS of room. He actually made us a set of 16's that cleared the 13" stoptech kit on the camaro. We put 17" rings on the same centers and have TONS of room on that same kit. buy 4 and save money by putting cheap 17's on the rear. That is what we plan on doing to Matt's Mustang when he puts it back on track next year. Ross won in 2009 with 18's on the front and 17's on the rear. Open your eyes to more than what is available in the Ford racing catalog. oh, and the awesome thing about Jongbloeds...? They weight 14.2# in 17x9.5. Granted two full sets of wheels will set you back a lot of money....but so will 10 sets of 18" toyos over the years. BFG is the best solution for 2012 however if Toyo can get back on their horse and deliver 17's for $240/tire that last 2 or 3 weekends...let's stick with em. If not...go BFG...17" Hoosiers will be over $300 next year for sure. Now, back to the feeds from Mid Ohio.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbodleimages Posted September 10, 2011 Author Share Posted September 10, 2011 Thats really not the point. I could call my friends at CCW or BBS and they would make me some wheels too. Just like yer boy at Jongbloed. They are not going to do it for free, though. I have 3 perfectly good sets of BBS wheels. Wheels that are pretty hard to sell at 9.5 wide as the standard is 10. I'll need two or three sets of the new custom wheels as well at between $2500 and $6k per four. All because the toyo 18" tire is by far the most expensive DOT track tire on the market, while the 17 is about the least expensive. Here's my solution. If Toyo wants to be the spec tire for AI next season, they must sell 18's to AI drivers at $25 or there abouts over the price of the 17's. They can charge what ever they want for those tires on the open market but to close the market with NASA they have to adjust their pricing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edhunter Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 As a racer that runs on 17's and still running Toyo's, I can understand Robs beef with Toyo. When I was building my car for AI, I picked up a killer Brembo 14" brake setup for cheap. Real cheap. Two piece rotors on aluminum hats, 4 piston aluminum calipers, the whole shebang. Sold it because I didn't want to have to pay the extra $$$ for the 18" toyo tires, spent alot more on the Stoptechs. I was buying new wheels so that didn't matter. I think Robs suggestion of Toyo selling the 18's to racers as a reduced price would be fair, and something I'd think Toyo should do it if wants to keep the sponsorship going. Otherwise I'd be fine going with BFG.... Not excited about swapping to the R6 though.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbodleimages Posted September 11, 2011 Author Share Posted September 11, 2011 i have loved BFG's. $75 a tire cheaper than a toyo 18. thats just wrong. i am on the new Goodyear right now. Love it. i am not a Hoosier fan either. the bfg contingency program is good. the goodyear is good. the hoosier is good. the toyo blows. i am fine with whatever they do. i think i would like open tires. competition for our business. better contingencies. more tire deals for racers. more choice for our driving styles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donovan Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 lets be clear. for a long time there was no 13" brake pacakge and no 17" wheel package designed for the 2005+ Mustang chassis. The available off the shelf stuff from ford racing and other aftermarket vendors was all built around the 14" brake/18" wheels package. That is how the car was engineered. That is how my car is equipped. These components were approved by the rules. The car is legal. The tire is required if it remains the spec. a spec tire is there to create equal conditions for the entire class. requiring part of the class to pay $500 to $600 per set of tires more than the rest of the class when that price differential is a massive anomoly in the racing tire market is changing the conditions for one group over the other. Thats goes goes against the entire idea of spec rules. Again, my complaint is not that an 18 costs more than a 17. Thats expected. When its a 10% as the industry standard and a 40% increase for the spec tire, its clearly unfair. WTF! Where is all this from... I never said anything about legality or rules. I was just stating the obvious that its a choice to run the 14"/18" combo... from the many many post you have bitching about the cost and avalibility of the 18" tires I was convinced that you thought it was a requirment to run the 18" wheels. You act like you did not have a choice! I know all about the S197's and the introduction of the 14"/18" crazyness, I have been involved since 2003. I still stand by my statement, its a choice! DD P.S. Thanks for the PM, and just like I responded in my PM back, Stop being a drama queen! Sheesh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donovan Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 the goodyear is good. the hoosier is good.the toyo blows. Its been said before, the toyos suck, but they suck for a looooong time! That goes a long way in my vote! DD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbodleimages Posted September 11, 2011 Author Share Posted September 11, 2011 dd, i think you misread what i am writing. i didnt say that the hoosiers were good tires and that the toyos blow. i said the contingency programs from hoosier, bfg and goodyear were a lot better than the toyo contingency program. if i am a drama queen to you, fine. i am not trying to fight about it. i wonder. if rather than consider lowering the price of the 18 down closer to the 17 like the other mfc's price, they raised the 17 cost up to $325 a tire or so. would your support of toyo as the spec tire be a strong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donovan Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Yes!!! I have run Hoosiers, love them, but I can get 3 weekends from 4 toyos, I got 1 out of the Hoosiers! I run PFC pads for the same reason, and they are the most expensive I have tried. I get almost a season on a front set, other brands I get 2-3 weekends on. If Hoosiers lasted as long as toyos I would be happy. DD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbodleimages Posted September 11, 2011 Author Share Posted September 11, 2011 ive run competitive lap times on bfg's thru at least 3 weekends. i have not gottent to the third weekend with the goodyear's yet, but i will. i fully expect to run 4 weekends on them. hoosier...i am not a fan. i am in a different position than some ai drivers. i run a handful of scca events every year where with their open tire rules, toyos are not very competitive. so, i have run toyos in my nasa racing and get to try the other stuff for my scca racing. hoosier, kumho, bf goodrich and now goodyear. i can only speak to my driving style and the level of competition and expense that i push myself to. i am not looking to win. i dont have a budget to test. the only set up notes i get are from race weekends. for what i am doing, i get as much quality life out of the bfg and the goodyear as i was getting from the 2/32 shaved toyo. hoosiers drop off pretty quickly. kumhos last as long as the bfg and goodyear but are not quit as fast for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
860TTC Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 All,I discussed this with Todd recently and it was conveyed to me that the majority of these types of decisions will most likely be made during the week of the Nationals event. Hopefully Todd can chime in and give any additional information, if there is any more at this time. Any update on the tires for 2011? I would really like to finish out the year on the tire we are going to use for next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacovini Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 No update as of today folks. Hoosier, Toyo and other tire VIPs were in the top floor of the tower at various times with NASA over the weekend. I'm sure a lot of discussions were had. I have no info at this time, but I do have a recommendation... Don't look at the future tire situation with "current tire situation eyeglasses." One of the great things about "change", as that there is usually some benefit to be had. What if change meant Toyo paid contingencies equal to or greater than Hoosier... What if change meant Hoosier tire costs were reduced and contingencies were like Toyo... Lots of possibilities to be had in this final year of the Toyo contract. Bottom line...We've always said (as a series) that we want LOW COST tires, that are DURABLE and AVAILABLE. (Grip matters less when everyone is on the same tire.) We've got to keep costs for the racers low. One thing that would help...ALL THE RACERS WHO WERE AT THE CHAMPIONSHIPS should start a thread with their experience on the Hoosiers. We had all types of track conditions...hot, cold, wet, dry. What were the tires like after a 20 min...after 40 min. How many tires did you go thru in the weekend. Did you use the Hoosier rains. (BTW...the question mark key is broken on my laptop. LOL) T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tornado Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 I started your thread and everyone is quite...wow a first. Personally my vote is faster and better contigency and most importantly please have availability and cheap prices. Oh yeah world hunger and peace also... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.