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running a PT at T25


bellwilliam

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reading T25 supplement rule book

 

70) All entries using the mapping of the NASA Performance Touring (PT) classes are required to have

competed in regional PT races, or NASA endurance races, scoring points in at least five events, prior to

the start of the 25 Hours of Thunderhill Raceway. The “PT-mapped” vehicle entered in the 25 Hours of

Thunderhill Raceway must have scored the five points events using the same vehicle, in the same

configuration, during all five points events prior to entry.

 

way I read this that means every "PT" cars need to have ran 5 PT/enduro events prior to qualify.

how does this apply to people running just T25 ? like Honda factory team ? or people building cars as we speak ?

 

what's the intent of this rule ?

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The intent is to keep entrants from running in and supporting another series (SM, SE30, MX5 cup etc.) all year and then prepping a car specifically for the 25 under PT rules. They want people to race and support PT, not exploit the rules for the 25.

 

Below is pure speculation and opinon---

I believe the rule was brought about because of teams with big $ ie. the CRZ and the AGM guys coming in and cleaning house (as "PT" cars) and not giving regular supporters of NASA a fighting chance. Of course if those guys build specific "25 hour" cars and run them in some PT races they will be legal.

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reading T25 supplement rule book

 

70) All entries using the mapping of the NASA Performance Touring (PT) classes are required to have

competed in regional PT races, or NASA endurance races, scoring points in at least five events, prior to

the start of the 25 Hours of Thunderhill Raceway. The “PT-mapped” vehicle entered in the 25 Hours of

Thunderhill Raceway must have scored the five points events using the same vehicle, in the same

configuration, during all five points events prior to entry.

 

way I read this that means every "PT" cars need to have ran 5 PT/enduro events prior to qualify.

how does this apply to people running just T25 ? like Honda factory team ? or people building cars as we speak ? what's the intent of this rule ?

 

How many people would be building a car in September and expect to have it sorted and race ready for a 25 hour race the first week of December? Not saying it can't be done, just asking how realistic of a goal that is

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I have thought about switching car this late into the season. going to a different tub that's not all bent out of the shape. and dropping in a fresh engine.

 

I also know of 2 T25 teams that race T25 only (and I am a complete T25 noob, really don't know of that many teams). how can they be legal then ?

 

are you also saying that Honda or AGM won't show up this year ?

 

was this rule in effect last year ? or it is a new rule ?

 

thanks.

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Ken- You figure out where you car fits with it's intended class

http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/enduro.pdf

 

I have thought about switching car this late into the season. going to a different tub that's not all bent out of the shape. and dropping in a fresh engine.

 

So enduro class it based on your normal race class and not PT

 

I also know of 2 T25 teams that race T25 only (and I am a complete T25 noob, really don't know of that many teams). how can they be legal then ?

 

They will need to enduro class base on the class the car was built for. If they are purpose built PT cars it shouldn't be a problem if they have run sprint races.

 

are you also saying that Honda or AGM won't show up this year ?

 

Not saying that at all. I just suspect they may have had something to do with the rule change.

 

was this rule in effect last year ? or it is a new rule ?

 

New rule in the 2011 25 hour supplements. Last year was open to "PT optimizing"

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4.2 Specific Classifications – Class Mapping

Class Organization Class Comments

944-Spec NASA E3

AI NASA E0

AIX NASA ES

AM BMW CCA ES

AS SCCA E0 American Sedan

ASC NASA ES

BM BMW CCA ES

BSR NASA E1 Boxster Spec

C NASA E3 MINI Challenge-C

CM BMW CCA ES (correction 1/21/10)

CMC NASA E2

CMC2 NASA E1

CS NASA E2 MINI Challenge-CS

DM BMW CCA ES (correction 1/21/10)

EF BMW CCA ES

EM BMW CCA ES

EP SCCA E0 On DOT tires; otherwise ES

FFR NASA E1

FP SCCA E0 On DOT tires; otherwise ES

GP SCCA E1 On DOT tires; otherwise ES

GS Grand Am ES

GS1 Grand Am ES 2003 or earlier

GS2 Grand Am E0 2003 or earlier

GT1 SCCA ES

GT2 SCCA ES

GT3 SCCA E0

GT4 SCCA E1 On DOT tires; otherwise ES

GT5 SCCA E1 On DOT tires; otherwise ES

GTA SCCA ES

GTI Cup NASA E3

GTS1 NASA E2

GTS2 NASA E1

GTS3 NASA E0

GTS4 NASA ES

GTS5 NASA ES

HC1 NASA E0

HC2 NASA E1

HC3 NASA E2

HC4 NASA E3

HC5 NASA E3

HP SCCA E3 On DOT tires; otherwise ES

HP BMW CCA E0

HS BMW CCA E1

IP BMW CCA E0

IS BMW CCA E1

ITA SCCA E3

ITB SCCA E3

ITC SCCA E3

ITR SCCA E1

ITS SCCA E2

JP BMW CCA E1

JS BMW CCA E2

KP BMW CCA E1

KS BMW CCA E2

Legends INEX E2 Must use spec tires & 5 gal tank

LP BMW CCA E2

LS BMW CCA E3

MP BMW CCA E2

MS BMW CCA E3

MX5 Cup SCCA E1

NC SCCA E3 Neon Cup

PCTCC NASA E3

PRC (all) NASA ES

PRC-GTS NASA E0 new classing for 2010

Pro7 NASA E3

PS0 NASA E1

PS1 NASA E2

PS2 NASA E3

PS3 NASA E3

PS7 NASA E3

PTA NASA E0 Tires used determine PT tire points assessment

PTB NASA E0 Tires used determine PT tire points assessment

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PTC NASA E1 Tires used determine PT tire points assessment

PTD NASA E2 Tires used determine PT tire points assessment

PTE NASA E3 Tires used determine PT tire points assessment

PTF NASA E3 Tires used determine PT tire points assessment

RS SCCA E1 Cal Club

SER NASA E3 Nissan SE-R Cup

SF NASA E3 Spec Focus

SGS Grand Am ES

SM NASA/SCCA E3 Spec Miata

SM BMW CCA ES

SN NASA E3 Spec Neon

SP SCCA ES

Spc Boxter PCA E1

Spc Boxter POC E1

Spec E30 NASA E3

Spec E36 NASA E1

Spec E36 BMC CCA E1

Spec7 SCCA E3

SR POC E1 Boxster

SRX NASA E0 Nissan SE-R Cup - Extreme

SSB SCCA E3

SSC SCCA E3

ST Grand Am E0

ST1 NASA ES Super Touring

ST2 NASA E0

SU NASA ES

T1 SCCA ES

T2 SCCA E0

T3 SCCA E1

TR INEX E2 Thunder Roadster (w/ OEM fuel tank)

Trans Am SCCA ES

USTCC NASA E1

WCGT SCCA ES World Challenge GT

WCT SCCA E0 World Challenge

WCGTS SCCA E0 World Challenge

Notes:

ES and ESR (sports racers):

ES and ESR cars are unlimited in the range of speed modifications, but must have adequate

safety equipment for their speed potential. Check with the NASA office before the race. Anyone

not familiar with NASA’s Endurance Series classifications should call the National Office: 510-232-

NASA.

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I have thought about switching car this late into the season. going to a different tub that's not all bent out of the shape. and dropping in a fresh engine.

 

So enduro class it based on your normal race class and not PT

I must be dumb or missing something obvious. If I apply this rule to all the active T25 teams I know of, about half of them are no technically longer eligible.

 

A few questions for whomever wants to reply:

 

1. What about a team has run all year, adds a second car built just like the first; same weight power and PT classing form configuration?

 

2. The current NASA definition of "event" as I understand it is a day or weekend, not an individual race. By that definition, there are only 5 "events" prior to T25. What about a team that does all 5 events but DNF's one so don't score the required points?

 

3. What about PT cars that run all year but make a mid season switch like re-dyno classing or trading a wing for a bigger tire thus changing their PT configuration?

 

4. What about a team that wrecks a car mid season and rebuilds the same car on a new tub?

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"points events" outta mean races that actually count as points-scoring races, and not "fun runs" or whatever. That would be consistent with how eligibility for Nationals is determined. One could easily get in 5 races during one NASA-TX weekend with that in mind...

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I don't see how you can get 5 races in one weekend.

 

in socal, at most, it is 1 enduro, and 2 PT races. running SM races don't count toward the eligibility.

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TX gets in 2 races per day for most classes, and with 4+ race groups its also easy to enter a 2nd race class (PTA and B don't run with C-F for instance).

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I have thought about switching car this late into the season. going to a different tub that's not all bent out of the shape. and dropping in a fresh engine.

 

So enduro class it based on your normal race class and not PT

I must be dumb or missing something obvious. If I apply this rule to all the active T25 teams I know of, about half of them are no technically longer eligible.

 

A few questions for whomever wants to reply:

 

1. What about a team has run all year, adds a second car built just like the first; same weight power and PT classing form configuration?

 

2. The current NASA definition of "event" as I understand it is a day or weekend, not an individual race. By that definition, there are only 5 "events" prior to T25. What about a team that does all 5 events but DNF's one so don't score the required points?

 

3. What about PT cars that run all year but make a mid season switch like re-dyno classing or trading a wing for a bigger tire thus changing their PT configuration?

 

4. What about a team that wrecks a car mid season and rebuilds the same car on a new tub?

 

1- Waiver from Jerry? If you had run one car all year and prep the second the same, I suspect he would grant a waiver

 

2- What if you did 3 events last year and 2 this year. Does that count as 5 PT events?

 

3- I was wondering the same thing. What if you run 10 or 13 point tires in sprint races and want to run a 7 point in the 25. Do you have to sacrifice 5 events with 7 point tires?

 

4- I suspect that is no penalty, and you run as a PT class car

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