bellwilliam Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 reading T25 supplement rule book 70) All entries using the mapping of the NASA Performance Touring (PT) classes are required to have competed in regional PT races, or NASA endurance races, scoring points in at least five events, prior to the start of the 25 Hours of Thunderhill Raceway. The “PT-mapped” vehicle entered in the 25 Hours of Thunderhill Raceway must have scored the five points events using the same vehicle, in the same configuration, during all five points events prior to entry. way I read this that means every "PT" cars need to have ran 5 PT/enduro events prior to qualify. how does this apply to people running just T25 ? like Honda factory team ? or people building cars as we speak ? what's the intent of this rule ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlfpkrcn1 Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 The intent is to keep entrants from running in and supporting another series (SM, SE30, MX5 cup etc.) all year and then prepping a car specifically for the 25 under PT rules. They want people to race and support PT, not exploit the rules for the 25. Below is pure speculation and opinon--- I believe the rule was brought about because of teams with big $ ie. the CRZ and the AGM guys coming in and cleaning house (as "PT" cars) and not giving regular supporters of NASA a fighting chance. Of course if those guys build specific "25 hour" cars and run them in some PT races they will be legal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlfpkrcn1 Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 reading T25 supplement rule book 70) All entries using the mapping of the NASA Performance Touring (PT) classes are required to have competed in regional PT races, or NASA endurance races, scoring points in at least five events, prior to the start of the 25 Hours of Thunderhill Raceway. The “PT-mapped” vehicle entered in the 25 Hours of Thunderhill Raceway must have scored the five points events using the same vehicle, in the same configuration, during all five points events prior to entry. way I read this that means every "PT" cars need to have ran 5 PT/enduro events prior to qualify. how does this apply to people running just T25 ? like Honda factory team ? or people building cars as we speak ? what's the intent of this rule ? How many people would be building a car in September and expect to have it sorted and race ready for a 25 hour race the first week of December? Not saying it can't be done, just asking how realistic of a goal that is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 what are you supposed to do with a car that doesn't fit into a series besides PT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellwilliam Posted September 7, 2011 Author Share Posted September 7, 2011 I have thought about switching car this late into the season. going to a different tub that's not all bent out of the shape. and dropping in a fresh engine. I also know of 2 T25 teams that race T25 only (and I am a complete T25 noob, really don't know of that many teams). how can they be legal then ? are you also saying that Honda or AGM won't show up this year ? was this rule in effect last year ? or it is a new rule ? thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlfpkrcn1 Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 Ken- You figure out where you car fits with it's intended class http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/enduro.pdf I have thought about switching car this late into the season. going to a different tub that's not all bent out of the shape. and dropping in a fresh engine. So enduro class it based on your normal race class and not PT I also know of 2 T25 teams that race T25 only (and I am a complete T25 noob, really don't know of that many teams). how can they be legal then ? They will need to enduro class base on the class the car was built for. If they are purpose built PT cars it shouldn't be a problem if they have run sprint races. are you also saying that Honda or AGM won't show up this year ? Not saying that at all. I just suspect they may have had something to do with the rule change. was this rule in effect last year ? or it is a new rule ? New rule in the 2011 25 hour supplements. Last year was open to "PT optimizing" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlfpkrcn1 Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 4.2 Specific Classifications – Class Mapping Class Organization Class Comments 944-Spec NASA E3 AI NASA E0 AIX NASA ES AM BMW CCA ES AS SCCA E0 American Sedan ASC NASA ES BM BMW CCA ES BSR NASA E1 Boxster Spec C NASA E3 MINI Challenge-C CM BMW CCA ES (correction 1/21/10) CMC NASA E2 CMC2 NASA E1 CS NASA E2 MINI Challenge-CS DM BMW CCA ES (correction 1/21/10) EF BMW CCA ES EM BMW CCA ES EP SCCA E0 On DOT tires; otherwise ES FFR NASA E1 FP SCCA E0 On DOT tires; otherwise ES GP SCCA E1 On DOT tires; otherwise ES GS Grand Am ES GS1 Grand Am ES 2003 or earlier GS2 Grand Am E0 2003 or earlier GT1 SCCA ES GT2 SCCA ES GT3 SCCA E0 GT4 SCCA E1 On DOT tires; otherwise ES GT5 SCCA E1 On DOT tires; otherwise ES GTA SCCA ES GTI Cup NASA E3 GTS1 NASA E2 GTS2 NASA E1 GTS3 NASA E0 GTS4 NASA ES GTS5 NASA ES HC1 NASA E0 HC2 NASA E1 HC3 NASA E2 HC4 NASA E3 HC5 NASA E3 HP SCCA E3 On DOT tires; otherwise ES HP BMW CCA E0 HS BMW CCA E1 IP BMW CCA E0 IS BMW CCA E1 ITA SCCA E3 ITB SCCA E3 ITC SCCA E3 ITR SCCA E1 ITS SCCA E2 JP BMW CCA E1 JS BMW CCA E2 KP BMW CCA E1 KS BMW CCA E2 Legends INEX E2 Must use spec tires & 5 gal tank LP BMW CCA E2 LS BMW CCA E3 MP BMW CCA E2 MS BMW CCA E3 MX5 Cup SCCA E1 NC SCCA E3 Neon Cup PCTCC NASA E3 PRC (all) NASA ES PRC-GTS NASA E0 new classing for 2010 Pro7 NASA E3 PS0 NASA E1 PS1 NASA E2 PS2 NASA E3 PS3 NASA E3 PS7 NASA E3 PTA NASA E0 Tires used determine PT tire points assessment PTB NASA E0 Tires used determine PT tire points assessment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlfpkrcn1 Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 PTC NASA E1 Tires used determine PT tire points assessment PTD NASA E2 Tires used determine PT tire points assessment PTE NASA E3 Tires used determine PT tire points assessment PTF NASA E3 Tires used determine PT tire points assessment RS SCCA E1 Cal Club SER NASA E3 Nissan SE-R Cup SF NASA E3 Spec Focus SGS Grand Am ES SM NASA/SCCA E3 Spec Miata SM BMW CCA ES SN NASA E3 Spec Neon SP SCCA ES Spc Boxter PCA E1 Spc Boxter POC E1 Spec E30 NASA E3 Spec E36 NASA E1 Spec E36 BMC CCA E1 Spec7 SCCA E3 SR POC E1 Boxster SRX NASA E0 Nissan SE-R Cup - Extreme SSB SCCA E3 SSC SCCA E3 ST Grand Am E0 ST1 NASA ES Super Touring ST2 NASA E0 SU NASA ES T1 SCCA ES T2 SCCA E0 T3 SCCA E1 TR INEX E2 Thunder Roadster (w/ OEM fuel tank) Trans Am SCCA ES USTCC NASA E1 WCGT SCCA ES World Challenge GT WCT SCCA E0 World Challenge WCGTS SCCA E0 World Challenge Notes: ES and ESR (sports racers): ES and ESR cars are unlimited in the range of speed modifications, but must have adequate safety equipment for their speed potential. Check with the NASA office before the race. Anyone not familiar with NASA’s Endurance Series classifications should call the National Office: 510-232- NASA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
949Racing Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 I have thought about switching car this late into the season. going to a different tub that's not all bent out of the shape. and dropping in a fresh engine. So enduro class it based on your normal race class and not PT I must be dumb or missing something obvious. If I apply this rule to all the active T25 teams I know of, about half of them are no technically longer eligible. A few questions for whomever wants to reply: 1. What about a team has run all year, adds a second car built just like the first; same weight power and PT classing form configuration? 2. The current NASA definition of "event" as I understand it is a day or weekend, not an individual race. By that definition, there are only 5 "events" prior to T25. What about a team that does all 5 events but DNF's one so don't score the required points? 3. What about PT cars that run all year but make a mid season switch like re-dyno classing or trading a wing for a bigger tire thus changing their PT configuration? 4. What about a team that wrecks a car mid season and rebuilds the same car on a new tub? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 "points events" outta mean races that actually count as points-scoring races, and not "fun runs" or whatever. That would be consistent with how eligibility for Nationals is determined. One could easily get in 5 races during one NASA-TX weekend with that in mind... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellwilliam Posted September 8, 2011 Author Share Posted September 8, 2011 I don't see how you can get 5 races in one weekend. in socal, at most, it is 1 enduro, and 2 PT races. running SM races don't count toward the eligibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 TX gets in 2 races per day for most classes, and with 4+ race groups its also easy to enter a 2nd race class (PTA and B don't run with C-F for instance). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlfpkrcn1 Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 I have thought about switching car this late into the season. going to a different tub that's not all bent out of the shape. and dropping in a fresh engine. So enduro class it based on your normal race class and not PT I must be dumb or missing something obvious. If I apply this rule to all the active T25 teams I know of, about half of them are no technically longer eligible. A few questions for whomever wants to reply: 1. What about a team has run all year, adds a second car built just like the first; same weight power and PT classing form configuration? 2. The current NASA definition of "event" as I understand it is a day or weekend, not an individual race. By that definition, there are only 5 "events" prior to T25. What about a team that does all 5 events but DNF's one so don't score the required points? 3. What about PT cars that run all year but make a mid season switch like re-dyno classing or trading a wing for a bigger tire thus changing their PT configuration? 4. What about a team that wrecks a car mid season and rebuilds the same car on a new tub? 1- Waiver from Jerry? If you had run one car all year and prep the second the same, I suspect he would grant a waiver 2- What if you did 3 events last year and 2 this year. Does that count as 5 PT events? 3- I was wondering the same thing. What if you run 10 or 13 point tires in sprint races and want to run a 7 point in the 25. Do you have to sacrifice 5 events with 7 point tires? 4- I suspect that is no penalty, and you run as a PT class car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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