Rules Silly Season- Closed!

[marshallmosty]

Misty,

I can put that unit in my FOX for under $1000 total, using brand new parts (except the harness). You don't "have" to enable the traction control, as I wouldn't have that ability in my FOX. The integration would be approx the same for SN-95 and SN-99.

 

Of course, I'm assuming that everyone does their own fab work. I'm just quoting the cost of 4 wheel sensors, HCU, ABS module, and a hacked up body harness. To plumb a car for a FR-500S unit wouldn't take that much more than the ABS it already has (except a 2nd rear hard line since it's a 4-channel system).

 

We've already determined that a FOX with full aero at 2950 race weight and a S197 with minimal aero at 3400 race weight stops in the same distance from 90 when you only compare the 94-95 Mustang ABS and the S197 "stock" unit. Again, this was just straight line breaking. More will be gathered this weekend.

 

So, just the SN95 to S197 ABS system needs an adjustment before you even talk about the race unit.

[svttim]

Besdies, we are mainly talking about the race ABS.

Do we know who is running the race module?

 

I haven't seen a list of who admits having it. Just comments about the dominant cars (Dean, Ryan, Brett) must be running it. When a pro/semi-pro driver kicks our butt by 2 seconds, I assume it's their mad skill. (Or my/our lack of skill) If just adding a FR abs mdule will make us competetive, I think I see my next winter project.

 

At RA, there clearly seemed like 2 "classes" in AI. Dave, Mark, Brian and Jason seemed to be fairly close. Then there was Dean's car (Jeremy) and Audrey.

 

Just thinkin'

 

j

 

 

And Bruce Cameron in the Boss S

[ac427cobra]

At RA, there clearly seemed like 2 "classes" in AI. Dave, Mark, Brian and Jason seemed to be fairly close. Then there was Dean's car (Jeremy) and Audrey.

 

Just thinkin'

 

j

 

 

I'm pretty sure Dave was on Toyos. I was on Good-Years because I can't get an 18" Toyo. Would much rather have run on the spec tire but sadly I can't.

 

Pretty sure Brian was on Hoosiers but I'm not positive.

 

FWIW

[edhunter]

So my total build is $77,000 + 3600 + 1200 = $76,800. Not cheap, but neither is racing.

 

AH HAH! Now I know why I run out of money racing! When I buy pieces/parts/stuff my racing fund goes down! Thanks Griz for showing me the error of my ways. Racing actually saves you money!

 

Sorry to interject, but this struck me as funny....

 

Back to the ABS debate... FWIW, Jay Andrew told me he put the Ford Racing ABS in his old fox and it was a "significant improvement"... One, Jay is a great driver anyway, and I think it's safe to say his fox is pretty tricked out for a 25 year old car. If he thinks the addition is significant, then how much of a driver improvement aid would it be to a newbie racer like me??? I too have heard the 1K cost to add figure....

Edited October 17, 2011 by Guest

[robbodleimages]

bruce,

 

how did you like the goodyears?

[ac427cobra]

bruce,

 

how did you like the goodyears?

 

Rob:

 

I actually like the Good Years a lot. But I'll be holding out hoping to get on the spec tire next season.

[robbodleimages]

whatever that happens to be.

[Grizlbits]

Sorry Ed. Fat fingers. I keep telling my wife that I save money everywhere. She doesn't believe me either... I really hate that quicken program she uses to track the racing budget. Oops, I am not supposed to use that word"budget". She keeps saying I don't know the definition.

 

Anyone that races Grand Am have experience with the continental endurance tire they run that is made by Hoosier? Dean says it lasts much longer. As we see here, without a cheaper tire, our entries will go down, ABS or not.

[stevepoe]

Anyone that races Grand Am have experience with the continental endurance tire they run that is made by Hoosier

 

I got a good used set from Dean this year and ran them at the enduro at putnam this year . They where great till about 30 min and when you cook them they don't come back very fast .

 

I have a stack of hoosiers now and love them but I hope toyo matches hoosier contingency and brings the 18" price back in check with others in that size. That would be the ticket .

 

Bruce ,

 

I got a chance to look at your phb ."very nice part" good to support a fellow racer .

[svttim]

Sorry Ed. Fat fingers. I keep telling my wife that I save money everywhere. She doesn't believe me either... I really hate that quicken program she uses to track the racing budget. Oops, I am not supposed to use that word"budget". She keeps saying I don't know the definition.

 

Anyone that races Grand Am have experience with the continental endurance tire they run that is made by Hoosier? Dean says it lasts much longer. As we see here, without a cheaper tire, our entries will go down, ABS or not.

 

I have on a 3800 lbs car. Stuck like glue for me. I ran them hard for about 20 minutes with little drop off. They lasted several sessions that way. And they are still in use. I think they would make a great spec tire

[robbodleimages]

i have some quality laps on the conti/hoosier cup tire. how many sizes does that tire come in?

two? is it available in a 17? i dont think ive seen any of those.

[kbrew8991]

Contis come in a ton of sizes - look at the variety of different cars that run in that series.... from Minis & Miatas to big Mustangs & M3s

[reedrum]

The current reality of AI, in my opinion is there are high dollar cars and grassroots cars. I do not think we should split the classes into AJ (American Junk) and AE (American Expensive). With technology creep, we will continue to have issues. The only solution I see we are headed towards if we want to keep one class is a rule set by car type - I know this reeks of SCCA but that would come close to solving a lot of issues. I used to race in Touring 2 in SCCA (basically stock Mustangs, camaros, Firebirds, CTS-Vs, Evos, WRXs). For example, SCCA gave allowances to older mustangs such as bigger brakes to be more competitive with newer cars. You could also appeal to board for changes. I know it seems tedious but that is where we are headed. Who the heck wants to drive away potential competitors and fragment the class? The more the merrier! If NASA opts for the do nothing scenario, AI will be only have the folks that can afford a big racing budget which is contrary to the premise of the class. I currently drive an over tired 97 Mustang Cobra, and having driven a 500S this year, I can totally say that the S197's have a huge advantage just on platform alone. I am in market for S197 and if i get one, I am totally prepared to add weight or take on restriction - if anything just to be fair. Yeah, it would be fun to munch the competition for a while but I would miss the door-to-door racing - which to me gives the biggest kicks. That's may $.02..maybe $.01 worth...Todd C., this is a growing issue in our class. You guys need to made some bold changes this year.

[D Algozine]

I'd love to hear from the guys/gals that have been racing the FR ABS. Anyone willing to provide an honest evaluation/comparison of its characteristics, benifits, shortcomings, etc...?

I've been told the system is incredible, but never driven or been on track with a car that has it. Anything like the M3 system? Because the M3 braking system is remarkable.

[robbodleimages]

ive got it. the right front wheel locked up for a year and a half til the i finally figured out

what was causing it this spring. this was under any braking, not just hard braking. now thats just my

experience. the final fix was a very small thing that umteen people couldnt find.

 

so...its not all roses.

[reedrum]

Dave, I drove a 500S for a couple of days out at Miller; the racing ABS was incredible - it definitely allows you brake in ways you would never think possible in non-ABS car. Basically, you almost stand on brakes and the car responds in total control. Maybe better drivers would disagree. In my opinion, this is an advantage that NASA needs to address - either by allowances given to non-race ABS cars or restrictions placed on race ABS cars.

[marshallmosty]

ive got it. the right front wheel locked up for a year and a half til the i finally figured out

what was causing it this spring. this was under any braking, not just hard braking. now thats just my

experience. the final fix was a very small thing that umteen people couldnt find.

 

so...its not all roses.

 

 

Rob,

Your post is confusing. It appears that you don't like the brakes, as one of your wheels locked up for over a full year, but theat was fixed by "a very small thing". So the question Dave really wants to know... Now that you have a functional FR-500S ABS system, what are your thoughts?

[stevepoe]

Dave, I drove a 500S for a couple of days out at Miller; the racing ABS was incredible - it definitely allows you brake in ways you would never think possible in non-ABS car. Basically, you almost stand on brakes and the car responds in total control. Maybe better drivers would disagree. In my opinion, this is an advantage that NASA needs to address - either by allowances given to non-race ABS cars or restrictions placed on race ABS cars.

 

my opinion. it makes slower guys faster but I don't think it makes the fast guys any more fast

Edited October 18, 2011 by Guest

[reedrum]

Well said Steve!

[860TTC]

When we had the ABS argument a few years the Ford Racing ABS unit was thought to be not as effective with Toyo's because they did not have much more grip then a street tire. There was talk about going back to a Shelby Cobra street unit.

[stevepoe]

When we had the ABS argument a few years the Ford Racing ABS unit was thought to be not as effective with Toyo's because they did not have much more grip then a street tire. There was talk about going back to a Shelby Cobra street unit.

 

 

I just don't see AI having the talent pool that could get out of the car and tell the difference yet alone see it in lap times

[robbodleimages]

Rob,

Your post is confusing. It appears that you don't like the brakes, as one of your wheels locked up for over a full year, but theat was fixed by "a very small thing". So the question Dave really wants to know... Now that you have a functional FR-500S ABS system, what are your thoughts?

 

in the one event that i was testing the brakes to see if they were fixed, i was threshold braking rather than just standing on the brakes. the lock up issue caused one painful crash and a couple of scary off's. after finding a pinched line and was very timid on the brakes.

 

so...my thoughts are that i am very untrusting of them. i have never used them as a crutch even before the lockup problem started.

being a small budget guy, it has hurt me significantly and i just wanted to get that point across.

[marshallmosty]

Rob,

Your post is confusing. It appears that you don't like the brakes, as one of your wheels locked up for over a full year, but theat was fixed by "a very small thing". So the question Dave really wants to know... Now that you have a functional FR-500S ABS system, what are your thoughts?

 

in the one event that i was testing the brakes to see if they were fixed, i was threshold braking rather than just standing on the brakes. the lock up issue caused one painful crash and a couple of scary off's. after finding a pinched line and was very timid on the brakes.

 

so...my thoughts are that i am very untrusting of them. i have never used them as a crutch even before the lockup problem started.

being a small budget guy, it has hurt me significantly and i just wanted to get that point across.

 

 

Rob,

Perfect. Thanks for your frank and honest input.

[D Algozine]

Dave, I drove a 500S for a couple of days out at Miller; the racing ABS was incredible - it definitely allows you brake in ways you would never think possible in non-ABS car. Basically, you almost stand on brakes and the car responds in total control. Maybe better drivers would disagree. In my opinion, this is an advantage that NASA needs to address - either by allowances given to non-race ABS cars or restrictions placed on race ABS cars.

 

my opinion. it makes slower guys faster but I don't think it makes the fast guys any more fast

 

Wow, then this is easy. If it's of little or no value then removing it should be of no consern to any of the "fast guys".

So Steve, I assume you built your car from scratch, as you typically do ? Then why put the system on your car? Extra front end ballast? Dean probably just has it on his car, because all of the other Grand Am guys have it, and it looks cool He likely installs it in all of his new customer cars he builds because.......it's really of no value ???

Come on really, FR spent hundreds of thousands of dollars, countless man hours, and testing for thier cars to be highly competitive at the Pro level, and their race ABS doesn't really help fast guys. That makes absolutely no sense at all. You can't really expect anyone to believe that?

Thanks for your input, but I asked for an honest opinion. You could have just remained silent like the rest of the guys who are racing with it are going to do.

[D Algozine]

When we had the ABS argument a few years the Ford Racing ABS unit was thought to be not as effective with Toyo's because they did not have much more grip then a street tire. There was talk about going back to a Shelby Cobra street unit.

 

 

I just don't see AI having the talent pool that could get out of the car and tell the difference yet alone see it in lap times

 

Strongly disagree.