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jason

Pie in the sky rule change requests - 2012

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TurboShortBus
agreed - having only 12 to spend when your competition has 19 (or more!) makes things tough at times.

Annnnnnd...those are your warts.

 

Mark

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kbrew8991

I've got a pie in the sky request - lets no longer be forced to deal with our warts!

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BlkGt3
agreed - having only 12 to spend when your competition has 19 (or more!) makes things tough at times.

Annnnnnd...those are your warts.

 

Mark

 

Sort of like your sway bar end link warts.

 

Peter

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Vettedoctor

Can we get rid this one? I know Greg was in favor of axeing it last year.

 

4) Changing the mounting orientation/design of the OEM shock and/or spring perch in order to

invert the shocks/struts (includes non-OEM inverted shocks/struts) +1

 

I definatly think the end links should be free and like the idea of the top tier tires being +12. * cars should have the option to run the size and compound tire as the non * cars.

 

But I guess I can answer these requests pretty quick -

No

but

No

but

No

but in the case of hardtop vs NASA forum

NO!

 

Thanks! Now back to checking Fred and Falcons thread for new jokes.

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drivinhardz06
My real request is to end the first lap point by requirement.

 

Either you are ready to pass/be passed at any time, anywhere on track from the drop of the green, or you belong in DE3. It really just causes confusion and hesitation, which just turns into a cluster.

 

agreed 100%. when the green flag drops you either have the skill/ability/license to do it, or you don't. nobody is ever willing to give a point by anyway, so it just holds up the guy behind for a lap (maybe he's on an auto-x compound and he's ready to rip, and the other guy is on something that takes 2 laps to come up)

 

when the green drops, let 'em eat

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brkntrxn
I've got a pie in the sky request - lets no longer be forced to deal with our warts!

 

 

There is a princess waiting for you stage right.

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TurboShortBus
agreed - having only 12 to spend when your competition has 19 (or more!) makes things tough at times.

Annnnnnd...those are your warts.

 

Mark

 

Sort of like your sway bar end link warts.

 

Peter

I'm too lazy to do anything about them, anyway.

 

Mark

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kbrew8991

You got a job yet Mark?

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TurboShortBus
You got a job yet Mark?

Absolutely not, hence the thick coat of dust on the Mustang and the increased TT rules enforcement at regional events!

 

An architecture or construction project management job in Florida is about as pie in the sky as things get!

 

Mark

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Varkwso
My real request is to end the first lap point by requirement.

 

Either you are ready to pass/be passed at any time, anywhere on track from the drop of the green, or you belong in DE3. It really just causes confusion and hesitation, which just turns into a cluster.

 

agreed 100%. when the green flag drops you either have the skill/ability/license to do it, or you don't. nobody is ever willing to give a point by anyway, so it just holds up the guy behind for a lap (maybe he's on an auto-x compound and he's ready to rip, and the other guy is on something that takes 2 laps to come up)

 

when the green drops, let 'em eat

 

If I can only get them to do the first yellow lap correctly I would be happy.

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jason

Put TTA on the pole, you know we'll stack'em up.

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ILIKETODRIVE
It might suck, but you might have to treat it just like coming in a couple pounds under weight. You might've been over the minimum when you crossed the S/F line and thus been over the entire race, but when it comes time to measure and observe you're either legal at that point or not. So the swaybar is either attached properly at impound and was thus properly attached throughout the race or it is not is how I assume they're looking at it.

 

AFAIK that's why you get a 1-time for the weekend 5lb grace for weight...right? (might be our region but I thought it was everywhere...)

 

IMO, if a component like that breaks and would cost you points, let it ride that one time. If they don't replace/repair it for the next session, assess the points in impound the next time.

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Varkwso
Put TTA on the pole, you know we'll stack'em up.

 

Not too fast, not too slow, tight on car in front, race speed a few turns before start/finish. How hard can it be?

 

Pretty challenging it.seems!

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jason
My real request is to end the first lap point by requirement.

 

Either you are ready to pass/be passed at any time, anywhere on track from the drop of the green, or you belong in DE3. It really just causes confusion and hesitation, which just turns into a cluster.

 

agreed 100%. when the green flag drops you either have the skill/ability/license to do it, or you don't. nobody is ever willing to give a point by anyway, so it just holds up the guy behind for a lap (maybe he's on an auto-x compound and he's ready to rip, and the other guy is on something that takes 2 laps to come up)

 

when the green drops, let 'em eat

 

Another way of looking at it, either we're under green flag conditions, or we should stay under double yellow.

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Varkwso
My real request is to end the first lap point by requirement.

 

Either you are ready to pass/be passed at any time, anywhere on track from the drop of the green, or you belong in DE3. It really just causes confusion and hesitation, which just turns into a cluster.

 

agreed 100%. when the green flag drops you either have the skill/ability/license to do it, or you don't. nobody is ever willing to give a point by anyway, so it just holds up the guy behind for a lap (maybe he's on an auto-x compound and he's ready to rip, and the other guy is on something that takes 2 laps to come up)

 

when the green drops, let 'em eat

 

Another way of looking at it, either we're under green flag conditions, or we should stay under double yellow.

 

In that we agree completely!

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cucamelsmd15

I just wanted to poke my head in here to say Im in the same boat as Vinny with the Miata endlinks, and thats one change Id really like to see go through.

 

Its not a matter of performance, its a matter of safety in our case.

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jason
Its not a matter of performance, its a matter of safety in our case.

Corvettes need aero or we'll fly off track into the stands, which we can all agree is very unsafe.

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Cobra4B
Its not a matter of performance, its a matter of safety in our case.

Corvettes need aero or we'll fly off track into the stands, which we can all agree is very unsafe.

Hear hear!

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sperkins

Overall, I think the rule set is amazingly accurate in it's base classing with the exception of the large tire size gap from TTB to TTA.

 

1. Adjustable end links should be a no brainer since 2 identical cars from the factory can have differing amounts of preload from the factory. Adjustable links are the only way to ensure the 2 cars are equal in it's OEM design.

 

 

2. The lap one point by rule definitley needs to be revoked.

 

 

3. A provision to allow the modification of the floor pan/tub to allow easier access for maintenance and swapping large items like differentials etc. Removable non-structural panels that maintain original shape and design would be perfect.

 

 

4. Refund or credit allowance to drivers if timing and scoring drops the ball on a session. We're here to compete - not to make laps and it's impossible to do that without an official clock. There's nothing worse than burning up a set of sticker tires and brakes for the money run, breaking a track record or putting in a winning lap only to find that the system wasn't working.

 

 

5. Footwell cage bars for added safety regardless if it penetrates the firewall (no allowance for connecting to suspension pick up points). Basically an 8 point cage should be the safety standard - not 6.

 

 

6. Separate classes for vehicles that cannot be accurately checked for compliance at the track.

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kbrew8991

#6 already exists - TTR

 

Or did you have a different idea? Just curious.

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Cobra4B

3. A provision to allow the modification of the floor pan/tub to allow easier access for maintenance and swapping large items like differentials etc. Removable non-structural panels that maintain original shape and design would be perfect.

I got a waiver from Greg G. to modify my floor pan to lower my seat another 5/8". I'm sure you could try that for a rear access panel for our cars. It would make trans/diff work much easier.

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Vettedoctor

Just spit-balling here but do you think the reason that they don't allow adjustable end links is so you don't pre-load the bar to try to add some rate to the bar?

I'm just thinking out loud but if you added a bunch of pre-load to both sides of the bar would that be a "cheater" way of adding rate since you are already starting at a more loaded part of the bar?

Maybe I'm way off on this but maybe that's why they don't want to make end links free.

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kbrew8991

It's not a torsion-bar type spring, it only works by applying "spring rate" by being twisted via body roll. If you try and pre-load both sides you'll just move the ends of the bar upwards or downwards but it won't add or take away any rate if you do it that way. You can only pre-load in one direction.

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drivinhardz06
Can we get rid this one? I know Greg was in favor of axeing it last year.

 

4) Changing the mounting orientation/design of the OEM shock and/or spring perch in order to

invert the shocks/struts (includes non-OEM inverted shocks/struts) +1

 

yeah not sure that one makes sense since you can delete the e-brake for free, run 2 pc rotors, buy the lighest wheels you can afford, all of which take away WAY more unsprung weight that flipping a shock over. I guess maybe on a mac slut car if you got creative and flipped everything you could save a lot of unsprung, dunno

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dans2k

>> 2. The lap one point by rule definitley needs to be revoked.

 

In the slower group at nationals I thought that worked well. I mean the fast part of the course is the first half the lap so cars with more power could get by and hold u up the rest of the lap. With that rule you get a lap to clear them.

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