Pie in the sky rule change requests - 2012

[kbrew8991]

I want to see that rule go out the window because some tracks/groups it makes sense, other groups/tracks it does not. Handle it via supps on an event-by-event or region-by-region basis instead of dumbing everyone down to the lowest common denominator.

[Vinny]

In MA we started a new spacing thing that was being enforced late last year and its been working wonders for traffic.

 

The pace car takes half way around the track and everyone is suppose to space out 8-10 car lengths, as people started to catch on and get the hang of it, it has worked great. Enough space for the straight line cars not to catch the slow ones, and the corner speed cars dont catch the others in the corners.

[dans2k]

I want to see that rule go out the window because some tracks/groups it makes sense, other groups/tracks it does not. Handle it via supps on an event-by-event or region-by-region basis instead of dumbing everyone down to the lowest common denominator.

 

 

yea thats not a bad idea its pretty much supplemental rule in the southeast already from what I've seen on track!

[kbrew8991]

8-10 car lengths with a 60 car run group around Road Atl will have the polesitter starting in traffic

[boomn29]

8-10 car lengths with a 60 car run group around Road Atl will have the polesitter starting in traffic

Ditto in the MW/GL. We ran 64 cars in TT at Mid Ohio in August. I was around 12th and that many cars is just a mess; and there's not 8-10 car lengths to go around!

 

We regularly have 25-40 cars in the MW/GL. We don't use a pace car and we're free to pass anytime anywhere. All in all - we're smart enough to manage our own outlaps and gaps. We also discuss the outlap speed at EVERY download session and make adjustments to speed as needed. Just talk to each other guys!

The only issue we ever have is when somebody sandbags too much space (rare) or when we've got a total idiot at the back that leaves tons of space.

 

So for the record - I agree the rule needs to go. It gets really screwed when the first session is a rainy session like it was at MO Nationals. I had the Nobama Lister sitting on my bumper for pretty much the entire backstraight on lap #1 since he couldn't pass. That thing was loud...

[Vinny]

hahaha didnt think about that, we had 40 cars at VIR which isnt much for that large of a track. At summit the 8-10 lengths is shortened i believe Jon recommends 5-6 if we can help it. However as you run you know the guys around you and what you can get away without holding someone up or being held up.

[Varkwso]

8-10 car lengths with a 60 car run group around Road Atl will have the polesitter starting in traffic

 

That will not work with any of our rungroups or tracks. We run 1-2 car length and still have a huge train. But it works if everyone gets in position and then speeds up at the designated point.

[beerkat]

On a different topic.

 

I think that points should only be awarded to the fastest lap and those who are within 5 to 7 seconds of that time. It would keep those who can do every event, but can not run with the pack, from winning regional championships.

[TurboShortBus]

On a different topic.

 

I think that points should only be awarded to the fastest lap and those who are within 5 to 7 seconds of that time. It would keep those who can do every event, but can not run with the pack, from winning regional championships.

The F1 107% rule, perhaps?

 

Mark

[jason]

The F1 107% rule, perhaps?

Something like that.

[BlkGt3]

On a different topic.

 

I think that points should only be awarded to the fastest lap and those who are within 5 to 7 seconds of that time. It would keep those who can do every event, but can not run with the pack, from winning regional championships.

The F1 107% rule, perhaps?

 

Mark

 

If you can't run within 7% of your class leader you need to be in DE not TT

 

Peter

[obzezzed350]

On a different topic.

 

I think that points should only be awarded to the fastest lap and those who are within 5 to 7 seconds of that time. It would keep those who can do every event, but can not run with the pack, from winning regional championships.

The F1 107% rule, perhaps?

 

Mark

 

If you can't run within 7% of your class leader you need to be in DE not TT

 

Peter

 

Good point..

 

 

(Unless your class leader is in the C5 Mafia and the event is at Road Atlanta, then it should be 114% )

[boomn29]

On a different topic.

 

I think that points should only be awarded to the fastest lap and those who are within 5 to 7 seconds of that time. It would keep those who can do every event, but can not run with the pack, from winning regional championships.

The F1 107% rule, perhaps?

 

Mark

 

If you can't run within 7% of your class leader you need to be in DE not TT

 

Peter

Don't we all like 'Hoosier Fodder'??

[Vinny]

On a different topic.

 

I think that points should only be awarded to the fastest lap and those who are within 5 to 7 seconds of that time. It would keep those who can do every event, but can not run with the pack, from winning regional championships.

The F1 107% rule, perhaps?

 

Mark

 

If you can't run within 7% of your class leader you need to be in DE not TT

 

Peter

 

 

Which i agree with what you're saying the 7% rule is a little tough considering the wide array of cars...it isnt exactly spec racing. Also you'll hurt turn outs if you do something like that.

[beerkat]

I should have said within each class. I would not expect a TTF to compete against the TTA. I only bring this up because I will win the TTA regional championship because I have run in most of the events. the couple of wins I do have were because I was the only one who ran or if there were other cars they were not the other drivers normal car.

[CWeber]

 

If you can't run within 7% of your class leader you need to be in DE not TT

 

Peter

 

 

That would eliminate probably half all the TTers that run in our region! I've seen as much as a 20 second difference between the leader's of whatever TT group and the last place car (of same said whatever TT run group).

 

What is funny as hell is when we start looking at some times and noticed that a TTF car (supposed to be the slowest car out there compared to all other TT classes) is not only faster than some TTE and TTD cars, but sometimes even faster than the slowest TTA car (EEEEK)

 

 

How about a rule that all TTer's need to be faster than at least 2 of the classes below them instead?

 

For example, a TTA car better not be slower than a TTD car

[clydesdale]

On a different topic.

 

I think that points should only be awarded to the fastest lap and those who are within 5 to 7 seconds of that time. It would keep those who can do every event, but can not run with the pack, from winning regional championships.

 

If you want to be champ make sure you show up to enough events to win. In the Midwest they only count 10 out of a possible 16 which seems like a reasonable compromise.

[awdracer]

Time trials falls under HPDE. The idea of excluding people that aren't keeping up with class leaders is really awful.

 

Seriously. If you just can't stand the idea of all of these "slow" people keeping you from reaching your ultimate lap times and it's keeping you up at night then go do something else... or go pro. Grand-am would LOVE to have you.

 

My first race with NASA, I ran 2:24 at VIR in my 155 whp Sentra. Now my best lap time is in the mid 2:16. Should I have been excluded five years ago? Guys that are slow now may be fast later. We need to give people chances to improve their driving which is what NASA is all about. Don't take this... or yourself too seriously.

[kbrew8991]

You could just contact your regional series director and request to waive your points which would allow the next guy in line to win. How often does something like this happen? If its rare do we need a rule change?

[clydesdale]

Here's my rule change for 2012-- all classes are HP/Weight (dyno required). I see no reason why choosing to reclass should be at a general disadvantage to choosing engine and weight points. I've run across enough cars with more horsepower for the same points to know.

[BlkGt3]

Time trials falls under HPDE. The idea of excluding people that aren't keeping up with class leaders is really awful.

 

Seriously. If you just can't stand the idea of all of these "slow" people keeping you from reaching your ultimate lap times and it's keeping you up at night then go do something else... or go pro. Grand-am would LOVE to have you.

 

My first race with NASA, I ran 2:24 at VIR in my 155 whp Sentra. Now my best lap time is in the mid 2:16. Should I have been excluded five years ago? Guys that are slow now may be fast later. We need to give people chances to improve their driving which is what NASA is all about. Don't take this... or yourself too seriously.

 

Scott. Do the math say PTE runs 2:16 @ VIR. 107% of 2:16 is 2:25.5. Your 2:24 would fall under the 107% rule. I still say if you can't run that fast you need to improve your driving in HPDE. I am not elitist and at best a mid pack TT participant who would be embarrassed to Run 17 sec slower than a fast TTC car at Sebring.

 

Peter

 

Peter

[awdracer]

Here's my rule change for 2012-- all classes are HP/Weight (dyno required). I see no reason why choosing to reclass should be at a general disadvantage to choosing engine and weight points. I've run across enough cars with more horsepower for the same points to know.

 

That is already the case. What on earth are you talking about? Points cars have dyno limits and dyno reclass cars have dyno limits.

 

My car is a points car and I got DQ'd once for being LESS than ONE HP over my limit (the track dyno read 10 hp over my home dyno).

[getfast]

hahaha didnt think about that, we had 40 cars at VIR which isnt much for that large of a track. At summit the 8-10 lengths is shortened i believe Jon recommends 5-6 if we can help it. However as you run you know the guys around you and what you can get away without holding someone up or being held up.

 

The regional rule as it's written states "3 to 5 car lengths", but it's not like we are out there measuring, we just ask the flaggers to look for that type of gap and let us know if it's much more or much less. Definitely seems to work well, from what I've been told, but you and the others who are out there for many starts per weekend would know for sure.

[awdracer]

Time trials falls under HPDE. The idea of excluding people that aren't keeping up with class leaders is really awful.

 

Seriously. If you just can't stand the idea of all of these "slow" people keeping you from reaching your ultimate lap times and it's keeping you up at night then go do something else... or go pro. Grand-am would LOVE to have you.

 

My first race with NASA, I ran 2:24 at VIR in my 155 whp Sentra. Now my best lap time is in the mid 2:16. Should I have been excluded five years ago? Guys that are slow now may be fast later. We need to give people chances to improve their driving which is what NASA is all about. Don't take this... or yourself too seriously.

 

Scott. Do the math say PTE runs 2:16 @ VIR. 107% of 2:16 is 2:25.5. Your 2:24 would fall under the 107% rule. I still say if you can't run that fast you need to improve your driving in HPDE. I am not elitist and at best a mid pack TT participant who would be embarrassed to Run 17 sec slower than a fast TTC car at Sebring.

 

Peter

 

Peter

 

TT is HPDE. You can't omit people because they are slower than you think they should be. Besides. It doesn't matter. There will always be slower cars in TT. Does it matter if a TTU guy is as slow as a TTF guy? They are still running the same lap times.

 

Some of the guys in our PTE or TTE Mid-Atlantic group do not fall under the 2:25:5 threshold but I wouldn't want to go to the track without any of them.

[beerkat]

Time trials falls under HPDE. The idea of excluding people that aren't keeping up with class leaders is really awful.

.

 

This is not at all what I was suggesting. I am talking about points awarded. This is not about excluding people from participating. Going from HPDE 4 to TT was the one of the better things I've done. I have had to become a better driver just because of TT rules. WE need more people to do TT.

 

TT is about beating the clock. Every time I run I want to better my time. I know that I am not fast, but I am getting faster. So as long as I am bettering my times I am happy. I believe that a lot of drivers feel that way.