mattm Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 How about some sanity for 1.6 miata weights. I inquired about a reclass for a 1991 miata and was given a Weight of 2440 with 116 HP and a TTF* base class. If that wasn't bad enough I could choose to run 2685 with 114 HP and a TTF base class. In and of itself this doesn't bother me but a competitor was running a 90 miata with a 1.8 engine swap, 120 HP, Hoosier A6s and a real diff (OS Gikken) and could run 2312lbs. For comparison my 91 1.6 miata with my fat butt weighed in at 2357 on Toyo RA1s with a 1.6 that made 110 HP using the factory viscous LSD. My car has a base weight of 2182 and few miatas hit that number with driver. I just think it is wrong that trying to reclass a car that will most likely not hit weight requires me to run moe weight than a 1990 miata with a 1.8 swap that makes 10 more horsepower at least and weighs less and still has points to run A6 Hoosiers while I do not have points to run more than Toyo RA1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dans2k Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 How about the 00-03 and 04-05 S2000's get -50lbs or something vs the 06-09 because the ECU is not flashable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obzezzed350 Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 How about the 00-03 and 04-05 S2000's get -50lbs or something vs the 06-09 because the ECU is not flashable? This will require its own 40+ page thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWeber Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 wow this thread just keeps going and going oh... and to jump on the hoosier bandwagon ....the 2011 Nationals winning TTF Infiniti G20 had 225 45 15 Hoosier R6s on front and 205 50 15 Hoosier in back (did not win any contingency though because of only 4 cars in class) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted October 14, 2011 Author Share Posted October 14, 2011 How about the 00-03 and 04-05 S2000's get -50lbs or something vs the 06-09 because the ECU is not flashable? This will require its own 40+ page thread And a wind tunnel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 (edited) How about some sanity for 1.6 miata weights. I inquired about a reclass for a 1991 miata and was given a Weight of 2440 with 116 HP and a TTF* base class. If that wasn't bad enough I could choose to run 2685 with 114 HP and a TTF base class. Holy shit that's a gift, I need a Miata. My reclass for TTF* ranges from 120whp at 2582 to 125whp at 2657lbs. If Miatas in F are getting a weight break, I want one too. Hell I kinda want one right now even if you guys *don't* end up getting one since I've got an inferior stock suspension (SLA vs struts) so the field gets leveled - yes every frog has warts but the weights and/or powers are supposed to be set to make the field as level as can be done. Those numbers in adjusted terms: My reclass to TTF* - 21.506 Your reclass for TTF* - 21.404 Your reclass for TTF - 23.803 but with 19 points to spend in F alone. So just looking at both TTF* reclasses you've got 0.1 better adjusted hp/weight, similar aero, and superior suspension. That's a gift dude.... In and of itself this doesn't bother me but a competitor was running a 90 miata with a 1.8 engine swap, 120 HP, Hoosier A6s and a real diff (OS Gikken) and could run 2312lbs. For comparison my 91 1.6 miata with my fat butt weighed in at 2357 on Toyo RA1s with a 1.6 that made 110 HP using the factory viscous LSD. My car has a base weight of 2182 and few miatas hit that number with driver. What base classes and what competition classes for each car as I'm not following this comparison at all... and don't get mad at your competitor for spending his points more wisely than you re: diffs. I just think it is wrong that trying to reclass a car that will most likely not hit weight requires me to run moe weight than a 1990 miata with a 1.8 swap that makes 10 more horsepower at least and weighs less and still has points to run A6 Hoosiers while I do not have points to run more than Toyo RA1. Again not following you here - might need to lay out the base classes and points setups for each car you're trying to compare. Edited October 14, 2011 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninetyfourintegra Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 I was running my personal bests, and track record setting times on R6s in the PTD national race. Only problem was... that time was getting beat by 1.5-2+ seconds a lap by non-hoosier cars in the race. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D_Eclipse9916 Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 How about the 00-03 and 04-05 S2000's get -50lbs or something vs the 06-09 because the ECU is not flashable? This will require its own 40+ page thread And a wind tunnel. How about E36 M3s get minimum weights pulled down. I literally had to run ballast in mine including the spare tire. TTD** S2000 is required to be 2800lbs, 240hp, double wishbone suspension, better aero TTD* E36 M3 is required to be 3176lbs, 240hp, macpherson strut, brick in the wind. How does that make sense? A difference of no horsepower, maybe 40ft/lbs of torque, but is 40 ft/lbs of torque worth almost 400LBS!!! 400lbs for one star? Better suspension, newer? I dont understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D_Eclipse9916 Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 And a wind tunnel. How about E36 M3s get minimum weights pulled down. I literally had to run ballast in mine including the spare tire. TTD** S2000 is required to be 2800lbs, 240hp, double wishbone suspension, better aero TTD* E36 M3 is required to be 3176lbs, 240hp, macpherson strut, brick in the wind. How does that make sense? A difference of no horsepower, maybe 40ft/lbs of torque, but is 40 ft/lbs of torque worth almost 400LBS!!! 400lbs for one star? Better suspension, newer? I dont understand. I apologize, S2000 is 2850, so 326lbs...for one star? Neverthe less all the s2000 chassis/suspension advantages over an e36. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomn29 Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 How about E36 M3s get minimum weights pulled down. I literally had to run ballast in mine including the spare tire. TTD** S2000 is required to be 2800lbs, 240hp, double wishbone suspension, better aero TTD* E36 M3 is required to be 3176lbs, 240hp, macpherson strut, brick in the wind. I apologize, S2000 is 2850, so 326lbs...for one star? Neverthe less all the s2000 chassis/suspension advantages over an e36. Prett sure an E36 M3 won TTC Nationals over 4 S2000's? I know that's TTC vs TTD which you referenced as the base class, but still it seems they're just fine... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 how do those #s shake out in adjusted hp/weight terms first off 2nd off it seems like two-star cars are really intended to compete in the next higher class but are given a bit of a break on points (two starts in the lower class vs no stars in the next one up) to help them out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dans2k Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 I think the s2000 chassis is better but the E36 will make more power and torque for less points so better power/weight. That 240HP Honda quotes is about 190/195RWHP on a dynojet and you'd have to spend 7+points to max out around 205/210WHP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drivinhardz06 Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 I literally had to run ballast in mine including the spare tire. Ballast is a wonderful thing. If your car doesn't have 250 lbs of ballast, you're leaving some on the table Aren't the min weights pretty much set by what the car curbs at? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 it's in that ballpark, but I believe there may be some fine tuning beyond that to get them closer to the same ballpark adjusted hp/weight & initial classing wise (which is supposed to be the same process as the reclasses are done by). But I only have experience fielding two different cars so I've only got 2 data points to compare. My MR2s curb weight over their listing - the older sunroof car by alot, the "race" one that had been lightly stripped and then had a cage added was closer, but still about 50-60lbs over before I put it on a futher diet (wheels, exhaust mainly) I know Laura's newer RX8 that I've run in TTD a few times is just barely over the listing for the car with driver and 1/4th tank. So that one is fairly spot on when looking at curb vs listing. Lets get some more data points and look...? How do the Corvettes compare to their listing for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drivinhardz06 Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 How do the Corvettes compare to their listing for example. 3118 is exactly what a C5Z weighs with a full tank of fuel, bone stock. FRC C5 is like 327x I think, which is about what they are stock. 324x I think for the base C5? which should be pretty close. Is an E36 really almost 3200 lb curb? I would have thought that's a ~3k car or high 29xx... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drivinhardz06 Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 oh... and to jump on the hoosier bandwagon ....the 2011 Nationals winning TTF Infiniti G20 had 225 45 15 Hoosier R6s on front and 205 50 15 Hoosier in back (did not win any contingency though because of only 4 cars in class) Because of Hoosier's FANTASTIC support, I hope they won every TT podium spot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drivinhardz06 Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 2nd off it seems like two-star cars are really intended to compete in the next higher class but are given a bit of a break on points (two starts in the lower class vs no stars in the next one up) to help them out. yeah I've never been able to see how you could get any kind of fast tire on a ** car and make it compete against guys that can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted October 14, 2011 Author Share Posted October 14, 2011 How do the Corvettes compare to their listing for example. 3118 is exactly what a C5Z weighs with a full tank of fuel, bone stock. FRC C5 is like 327x I think, which is about what they are stock. 324x I think for the base C5? which should be pretty close. Is an E36 really almost 3200 lb curb? I would have thought that's a ~3k car or high 29xx... My E36 coupe weighed more than my Z. But it FELT 500lbs lighter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awdracer Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 It's all the same stuff. No it's not... things happen a whole bunch faster on a 2:00 lap than a 2:20 lap. Not saying people who choose to drive slower cars can't drive, just that I think it'd be easier for me to get up to speed in a SM than it would for a SM guy to go drive a TTU/ST1 car to its full potential. That's a valid theory. You should try it out and go spank that Spec Miata ass. PTA is looking a little light these days and the most fun thing about road racing is the competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra4B Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 That's a valid theory. You should try it out and go spank that Spec Miata ass. PTA is looking a little light these days and the most fun thing about road racing is the competition. One of the reasons I race a Corvette is beacuse it's one of the few cars I can fit in... Miata... not a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 It's all the same stuff. No it's not... things happen a whole bunch faster on a 2:00 lap than a 2:20 lap. Not saying people who choose to drive slower cars can't drive, just that I think it'd be easier for me to get up to speed in a SM than it would for a SM guy to go drive a TTU/ST1 car to its full potential. That's a valid theory. You should try it out and go spank that Spec Miata ass. PTA is looking a little light these days and the most fun thing about road racing is the competition. We can ask Chris Griswold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D_Eclipse9916 Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 I think the s2000 chassis is better but the E36 will make more power and torque for less points so better power/weight. That 240HP Honda quotes is about 190/195RWHP on a dynojet and you'd have to spend 7+points to max out around 205/210WHP. Stock s2000, 190-195 dynojet Stock m3, 195-210, (from what ive seen on bimmerforums it goes wildly side to side) S2000 minimum weight 2850 M3 minimum weight 3176 s2000 PW 15:1 to 14.6 M3 PW 16.2 to 15.1 So even at 210whp which would be considered factory freak, its still less power to weight than an incredibly weak s2000 at 190hp. More power and torque for less? Where do you get that from? Both are N/A cars, m3s dont see much with an intake and exhaust, in fact cat-backs typically dont make any more power :/ (which ive heard is same truth with the s2000) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clydesdale Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 (edited) I'm telling you, move everyone to adjusted hp/weight for classing and spend your time arguing about weight distribution, suspension geometry and aero instead. We can call it Quantitative Easing. And it would save Greg G. 3-10 hours per week: http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=36673&p=269598p269598 Edited October 14, 2011 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 The published classings in the rulebook and the reclasses you get by emailing Greg (supposedly) USE THE EXACT SAME PROCESS so how is it going to be ANY different? Or are you suggesting some other process entirely? I'm confused... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D_Eclipse9916 Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 I'm telling you, move everyone to adjusted hp/weight for classing and spend your time arguing about weight distribution, suspension geometry and aero instead. We can call it Quantitative Easing. I fully dont expect for the E36 M3 to jump down in weight because it won Nationals. But I really think the s2000 is "the" car to have in TTC and really shouldnt be dropping any more weight. In fact thats what all the honda boys were proclaiming to my friend, that I would get "eaten alive" at nationals. Either way, you guys have fun, wheel-to-wheel racing is another hit off the go-fast crack pipe and I most likely wont be in TT anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.