Should I switch platforms?

[stuiephoto]

This summer I have started to get heavy into track days. I currently drive a moderately built 06 sti on stock suspension.

 

I'm looking at the idea of switching to a different platform. I am running on a somewhat limited budget, so keeping the sti is making me concerned at how many events I can run/afford while still maintaining/modifying (cage!) my current car. Tires are absolutely killing me at 700-1000+ a set (and having to replace all 4), and this car is eating them up on the stock suspension.

 

The car will be built as a dedicated track car. I initially will only be running track days and time attack, but down the road a few years would love to do bumper to bumper. Right now my main focus is to have a car to become a better driver in, but I want it to be competitive (my attention span would be about 14 seconds in a 2000 camary at the track). I think I have a pretty quick learning curve so I don't want to have to rebuy down the road because the car is too slow.

 

Requirements for the new chassis are pretty vague. I want a cheap starting point, fast on the track, and easy to attain parts (napa, advance, etc), and RWD (I am not AT ALL interested in civics). I feel like the only vehicle that fits this is the mazda miata. A Spec class miata at nelson runs like 1:17 i think, and im running 1:23 right now so the speed factor is still there. Parts are readily available at local parts stores, and the car is dirt cheap to start off with. Small tires = cheap tires. I also feel like a low horsepower car will require me to become a better driver since I cant use the turbo to fix my mistakes. If I get sick of a 1.8, I can LS1 swap in 2 years and double my power output

 

There are a couple things about a miata that worry me. I'm not a small guy so I am worried about what size seats I can fit in the car. The other thing is that I have heard that the corvette/high HP car guys dont like to allow miatas to pass them at the track. This would get pretty frustrating after a while if it was true.

 

I'm looking for experiences and suggestions to the pros/cons of a miata and suggestions for other platforms that fit my requirements.

[jimbow]

Buy something already built!

Put a seat in it that fits you and be done with it.

 

Those miata's are one tough car. I've seen one rolled on its roof, drug back to the paddock, had the cylinders cleared out of oil, and it went back on track the next session.

[stuiephoto]

Buy something already built!

Put a seat in it that fits you and be done with it.

 

Those miata's are one tough car. I've seen one rolled on its roof, drug back to the paddock, had the cylinders cleared out of oil, and it went back on track the next session.

 

I plan to buy a built car already. There aren't a lot (any?) of them around me so I need to make arrangements to actually go and see the car that i chose, most likely out of state.

 

I really do love the idea of the miata as a dedicated track car. I just hate (see:Love) tracking my sti-- every turn i just cringe at how much im beating the crap out of a really expensive car.

 

Ill be looking in the buffalo area for someone with a miata to go and drive. I have to make sure I like the car first!

[Cooper93]

Buy something already built!

Put a seat in it that fits you and be done with it.

 

Those miata's are one tough car. I've seen one rolled on its roof, drug back to the paddock, had the cylinders cleared out of oil, and it went back on track the next session.

 

This. Plain and simple. If you despise the Honda, Spec Mee-Otter is your next best bet.

 

I had a 300whp WRX, wrecked it, got a 130whp 2.5rs and am actually having more fun in the RS. Lower hp cars will definitely make you a better driver, and they are easier on brakes and tires.

[kbrew8991]

speed costs money - how fast do you want to go?

 

If you're sure you'll want to race and you want to race on a reasonable budget, then I'd recommend picking from one of the 3 great Spec classes - Miata, E30, or 944. All are comparable in most costs so it comes down to how big the fields are in your region and if one of the cars interests you more than the others. I've seen some large & tall people in SM and in the other ones fwiw, though the Miata is probably the least roomy so you'll need to work with a good cage builder and such if the Miata is what you end up picking.

 

The quickest cure I can think of for the all-out speed bug is to start competing with a group of cars about the same speed as yourself. Who cares if you're doing 101 at the end of the straight if you're trying to pull off a late-brake pass on the guy in front of you that's only doing 100?

[Z06]

The "old miata passing a Corvette line." Funny! Have yet to see a miata pull a Corvette or Mustang around any corner at MSRH. Always slowing to a crawl thru a corner when behind a miata. Irritating little motor racket. But not as bad as the RX7. All written as humor.

With that all said, a corvette is always broken. Plastic POS!

[stuiephoto]

Buy something already built!

Put a seat in it that fits you and be done with it.

 

Those miata's are one tough car. I've seen one rolled on its roof, drug back to the paddock, had the cylinders cleared out of oil, and it went back on track the next session.

 

This. Plain and simple. If you despise the Honda, Spec Mee-Otter is your next best bet.

 

I had a 300whp WRX, wrecked it, got a 130whp 2.5rs and am actually having more fun in the RS. Lower hp cars will definitely make you a better driver, and they are easier on brakes and tires.

 

I think thats what I plan to do (buy built). I have 300whp to my sti right now and as fun as it is, I just dont think I can afford it in the long run. I think a high HP AWD car isnt the right one to learn the fine points of driving.

 

Wheel to wheel is not my primary concern, but i dont want to exclude myself from the option by what car i chose. I want to be at least as fast around the track as my sti, and from the research I have done, a miata should fulfill this requirement if set up and driven correctly. If it doesn't, I can always throw a turbo on it down the road.

 

The "old miata passing a Corvette line." Funny! Have yet to see a miata pull a Corvette or Mustang around any corner at MSRH. Always slowing to a crawl thru a corner when behind a miata. Irritating little motor racket. But not as bad as the RX7. All written as humor.

With that all said, a corvette is always broken. Plastic POS!

 

Im sure if you have people who actually know what they are doing this is the case, but many times at nelson ledges, you have people who arent willing to push their cars combined with poor driving = very slow corvettes. But a 'vette isnt in my go fast budget unfortunately.

 

Do you/anyone else have any suggestion for another platform that doesnt have a "irritating motor racket"? I have this question posted on a few other forums and it seems like the general consensus is miata.

[whoahstu]

You’ll need to decide how far you want to take whatever you decide to track. I took a nice retail priced Miata, tastefully modded it, and then found out about NASA. I’ve since prioritized to make a reliable track car. Now, I’ve decided I want to go w2w (Spec Miata), so I will have to mod it again; get my drift? It was originally intended to be a nice summer-months DD, now I don’t care what I drive on a daily basis; all my time/money/effort goes to putting the car on the track.

 

The Miata is going to be the cheapest and most reliable option. It does however, take a little prep to make it trackworthy. It will at the minimum need a rollbar, seat and harnesses. I see some (short) guys in Miatas using stock seats and harnesses (idiots). Unless you are 5’8”, you need a race seat, which warrants a 5/6-pt harness. A hardtop will net you a few mph top speed on the straights and added safety. Don’t mod the motor, just keep working on your skills.

 

At any time on the track in HPDE, there are fast Corvette drivers down to slow Miata drivers, and everything in between. The slow Vette/Mustang guys know to just let the Miata by. If they don’t, just bring it up in the meeting (or post the video on YouTube like I do ).

[Z06]

The joys of YouTube!! That's why I don't mess around while on track. You never know who's recording and then claiming they passed a such and such.

[whoahstu]

The joys of YouTube!! That's why I don't mess around while on track. You never know who's recording and then claiming they passed a such and such.

Dreams can come true for a Miata in HPDE.....even at Road America.

 

My first weekend there:

[smbstyle]

I was in the same exact boat as you; had a 2004 CTS-V w/ suspension and brake upgrades, and that thing ATE through pads, tires and fuel, and it was not cheap to keep on track. I barely got any track time out of it b/c all of my money was going into the consumeables and had no money left over for track time.

 

I browsed racingjunk for a few months, found a track-prepped Miata w/ a full 6 point cage (no door-bars though), stripped interior, seats and harnesses, modified suspension, Team Dynamic wheels w/ RA1s, stock 1.6L drivetrain and still had A/C, P/S and radio, and picked that thing up for a hair under $5k.

 

A full set of Carbotech pads cost me $250 for it; and will probably last me a season of DEs; that's what just the front set of pads for my CTS-V would cost, and I would go through them in three weekends. It is absolutely incredible how cheap everything is for this car, and how readily available the parts are. It's extremely tough too; mine has 160k on the entire drivetrain and not a weep of fluid leak, runs like a champ, and takes a good punishment on the weekends.

 

Best decision I ever made, and it is 100x slower than the V, but I could care less, I get a lot more track time for my money now, and will be able to learn a lot more in this car than I did with my CTS-V. Plus, it won't take much to get this thing in shape for SM.

 

Just my opinion though, take it for what it's worth.

[stuiephoto]

I was in the same exact boat as you; had a 2004 CTS-V w/ suspension and brake upgrades, and that thing ATE through pads, tires and fuel, and it was not cheap to keep on track. I barely got any track time out of it b/c all of my money was going into the consumeables and had no money left over for track time.

 

I browsed racingjunk for a few months, found a track-prepped Miata w/ a full 6 point cage (no door-bars though), stripped interior, seats and harnesses, modified suspension, Team Dynamic wheels w/ RA1s, stock 1.6L drivetrain and still had A/C, P/S and radio, and picked that thing up for a hair under $5k.

 

A full set of Carbotech pads cost me $250 for it; and will probably last me a season of DEs; that's what just the front set of pads for my CTS-V would cost, and I would go through them in three weekends. It is absolutely incredible how cheap everything is for this car, and how readily available the parts are. It's extremely tough too; mine has 160k on the entire drivetrain and not a weep of fluid leak, runs like a champ, and takes a good punishment on the weekends.

 

Best decision I ever made, and it is 100x slower than the V, but I could care less, I get a lot more track time for my money now, and will be able to learn a lot more in this car than I did with my CTS-V. Plus, it won't take much to get this thing in shape for SM.

 

Just my opinion though, take it for what it's worth.

 

Sorry for my delayed responses, it takes a while for my posts to get approved by a mod so its kind of hard to be relevant to the convo.

 

I really like to hear stories like this. I have a TON of money into this car recently and am having such a hard time parting with it because I really do absolutely LOVE the car (its my dream car). I just cant be one of those people who are making $330 a month payments on their track toy-- I would be absolutely screwed if anything were to ever happen. $400 bucks a month (payment plus insurance) buys a lot of track time around these parts.

 

I really do want to become a better driver and I think this car is holding be back. Between the cost of the car (higher car cost = way fewer track days) and the fact that its AWD, I feel like I am cheating myself.

 

Anyone know someone with a spec miata or close to it in the Buffalo, NY area? I want to go drive one to make sure I like the car (and fit?).

[smbstyle]

I was in the same exact boat as you; had a 2004 CTS-V w/ suspension and brake upgrades, and that thing ATE through pads, tires and fuel, and it was not cheap to keep on track. I barely got any track time out of it b/c all of my money was going into the consumeables and had no money left over for track time.

 

I browsed racingjunk for a few months, found a track-prepped Miata w/ a full 6 point cage (no door-bars though), stripped interior, seats and harnesses, modified suspension, Team Dynamic wheels w/ RA1s, stock 1.6L drivetrain and still had A/C, P/S and radio, and picked that thing up for a hair under $5k.

 

A full set of Carbotech pads cost me $250 for it; and will probably last me a season of DEs; that's what just the front set of pads for my CTS-V would cost, and I would go through them in three weekends. It is absolutely incredible how cheap everything is for this car, and how readily available the parts are. It's extremely tough too; mine has 160k on the entire drivetrain and not a weep of fluid leak, runs like a champ, and takes a good punishment on the weekends.

 

Best decision I ever made, and it is 100x slower than the V, but I could care less, I get a lot more track time for my money now, and will be able to learn a lot more in this car than I did with my CTS-V. Plus, it won't take much to get this thing in shape for SM.

 

Just my opinion though, take it for what it's worth.

 

Sorry for my delayed responses, it takes a while for my posts to get approved by a mod so its kind of hard to be relevant to the convo.

 

I really like to hear stories like this. I have a TON of money into this car recently and am having such a hard time parting with it because I really do absolutely LOVE the car (its my dream car). I just cant be one of those people who are making $330 a month payments on their track toy-- I would be absolutely screwed if anything were to ever happen. $400 bucks a month (payment plus insurance) buys a lot of track time around these parts.

 

I really do want to become a better driver and I think this car is holding be back. Between the cost of the car (higher car cost = way fewer track days) and the fact that its AWD, I feel like I am cheating myself.

 

Anyone know someone with a spec miata or close to it in the Buffalo, NY area? I want to go drive one to make sure I like the car (and fit?).

 

good idea... i never drove one until i bought mine, lol. fitment is all about how you set up the seat. I'm 6'0" and 195lbs, I fit great with plenty of legroom and more headroom than I had in the V.

[Cooper93]

I was in the same exact boat as you; had a 2004 CTS-V w/ suspension and brake upgrades, and that thing ATE through pads, tires and fuel, and it was not cheap to keep on track. I barely got any track time out of it b/c all of my money was going into the consumeables and had no money left over for track time.

 

I browsed racingjunk for a few months, found a track-prepped Miata w/ a full 6 point cage (no door-bars though), stripped interior, seats and harnesses, modified suspension, Team Dynamic wheels w/ RA1s, stock 1.6L drivetrain and still had A/C, P/S and radio, and picked that thing up for a hair under $5k.

 

A full set of Carbotech pads cost me $250 for it; and will probably last me a season of DEs; that's what just the front set of pads for my CTS-V would cost, and I would go through them in three weekends. It is absolutely incredible how cheap everything is for this car, and how readily available the parts are. It's extremely tough too; mine has 160k on the entire drivetrain and not a weep of fluid leak, runs like a champ, and takes a good punishment on the weekends.

 

Best decision I ever made, and it is 100x slower than the V, but I could care less, I get a lot more track time for my money now, and will be able to learn a lot more in this car than I did with my CTS-V. Plus, it won't take much to get this thing in shape for SM.

 

Just my opinion though, take it for what it's worth.

 

Sorry for my delayed responses, it takes a while for my posts to get approved by a mod so its kind of hard to be relevant to the convo.

 

I really like to hear stories like this. I have a TON of money into this car recently and am having such a hard time parting with it because I really do absolutely LOVE the car (its my dream car). I just cant be one of those people who are making $330 a month payments on their track toy-- I would be absolutely screwed if anything were to ever happen. $400 bucks a month (payment plus insurance) buys a lot of track time around these parts.

 

I really do want to become a better driver and I think this car is holding be back. Between the cost of the car (higher car cost = way fewer track days) and the fact that its AWD, I feel like I am cheating myself.

 

Anyone know someone with a spec miata or close to it in the Buffalo, NY area? I want to go drive one to make sure I like the car (and fit?).

 

How in the WORLD do you think AWD is holding you back?????

[cucamelsmd15]

How in the WORLD do you think AWD is holding you back?????

 

AWD and power is an easy button to cover up your mistakes.

 

 

Cheap, fast, reliable. Pick two.

[MR_E]

How in the WORLD do you think AWD is holding you back?????

 

I can understand the sentiment. I didn't realize until I switched to my MR2 how many bad habits driving my WRX had given me. It's kind of the same principle as having really good tires. They make a fast driver faster, but with an inexperienced driver, they tend to cover up mistakes and reinforce bad habits. Don't get me wrong - I love my WRX and the stability and grip that the AWD platform provides, but at least when you're starting out RWD is the way to go. You'll learn a lot more especially in regards to controlling slip angles and throttle input that way.

[Cooper93]

in regards to controlling slip angles and throttle input that way.

 

I can understand that in a powerful AWD car, but not so much in my current car (good ol' 2.5rs)

[kbrew8991]

if it never loses traction then you never really learn how to manage the situation

[Z06]

 

Somewhere in the video I exacted revenge on a spec miata.

[stuiephoto]

 

Somewhere in the video I exacted revenge on a spec miata.

 

When youre comparing the 2 cars like this, it just puts more sway towards the miata. I can get a high mileage stock miata for the cost of the rear tires on the corvette..haha.

 

My concerns at this point for the switch are the idea that people wont let you pass at track days, and that the power will be boring. Still looking to either the option to v8 swap down the road or to chose a different car (mustang?) with more power. Heh...who knows.

[Cooper93]

if it never loses traction then you never really learn how to manage the situation

 

Trust me, I can make it break traction. AWD just makes it easier for me to correct the problem.

[smbstyle]

 

Somewhere in the video I exacted revenge on a spec miata.

 

When youre comparing the 2 cars like this, it just puts more sway towards the miata. I can get a high mileage stock miata for the cost of the rear tires on the corvette..haha.

 

My concerns at this point for the switch are the idea that people wont let you pass at track days, and that the power will be boring. Still looking to either the option to v8 swap down the road or to chose a different car (mustang?) with more power. Heh...who knows.

 

Keep in mind Miata's take to forced induction very well, there are plenty of options, and its not terribly expensive.

 

Theres a TT guy in our region that put a Rotrex S/C on his Miata and make something like 225 rwhp on the stock motor, and runs it at 167rwhp for TTD hp/weight rules, and it's dead reliable.

[gandolflundgren]

WRX is a great ride but I tend to agree with the above posters where the AWD tends to cover up bad driving habits. If you are trying to become a better driver, the way to go is rear wheel drive. I wouldn't want to spend close to $400 bucks a month including the car insurance quote and extra for parts for a race toy. If I were you I would try to find an old beat up S13/240sx and run that on the track. They are a bit hard to find nowadays but that is the definition of a bang for your buck RWD vehicle.