true520 Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Ok, I still have to go out and do some HPDE classes and make sure I can drive on 4 wheels. (raced bikes on most of the SE tracks back in the mid to late 90s.) First off, let me say how much I HATE that I just now found this site! I am extremely excited and will just have to wait till next Feb or Mar... I went out this past weekend and picked up a pretty clean little 95 M3. The guy I got it from didnt know anything about the car, but after a little inspection, she does have Bilistein shocks, and AA exhaust, and a K&N cold air intake. Car needs a clutch right now, so that is keeping me from hauling arse down to NCCAR next weekend. So, onto the questions. I believe this car places in the TTC class. right? And, I am pretty sure for the HPDE classes I will just need some good tires and brake pads... What else needs to be done to this car so I can compete in the TT class... (not compete as in "up-front"....compete as in "pass tech" Thanks in advance for the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerkat Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 TT is the top end of HPDE. Most any car that you can run in HPDE you can do TT in. With that being said. TT people are head toward cages and full safety equipment. Many of the top TT guys in each class turn faster laps than their race counter parts. So as you go through HPDE you can decide on what safety level you are comfortable with. Get your car track ready with good tires and brakes then spent your money on track time. You will become a better driver learning to drive your car on street tires ( tread wear 150 to300) Sticky tires tend to hide your mistakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbow Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Also read the CCR and Time Trial rules! (Make sure you understand them, may take a few times) Understand the difference between OEM and an option/modification. Get some HPDE time under your belt - if you can head out to Road Atl in Dec. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
true520 Posted November 7, 2011 Author Share Posted November 7, 2011 You will become a better driver learning to drive your car on street tires ( tread wear 150 to300) Sticky tires tend to hide your mistakes. Well, That sounds like good sense...but do I want to make "mistakes" I know on Street Bikes, Not only could I pull a couple of seconds off my lap times, but I also felt safer going faster on the better tires? Should I get used to the car sliding around a little? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
true520 Posted November 7, 2011 Author Share Posted November 7, 2011 Also read the CCR and Time Trial rules! (Make sure you understand them, may take a few times) Understand the difference between OEM and an option/modification. Get some HPDE time under your belt - if you can head out to Road Atl in Dec. Well MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ME!!! ROAD ATLANTA in Dec...How did I not see that one! Count me in... I actually had some good finishes there way bac when on two-wheels...even won one I think. But that was when they still have the "Gravity Cavity" ! Only been on the track with the new chicane once...in 2000 I think. Fantastic news man...Count me in! THANKS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Should I get used to the car sliding around a little? yes it's easier to learn to control an ever so slight slide (fastest way around a corner on 4 wheels) on street tires that have a wider "sweet spot" and better "margin for error" than edgy race tires that'll grip grip grip and then bite your head off if you're not used to them or used to driving the car in general. Get through the HPDE levels, try and avoid modifying the car outside of safety equip, and once you're in DE3 or so look at what your car has vs what you want it to have to be competitive in whichever TT class you choose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
true520 Posted November 7, 2011 Author Share Posted November 7, 2011 Get through the HPDE levels, try and avoid modifying the car outside of safety equip, and once you're in DE3 or so look at what your car has vs what you want it to have to be competitive in whichever TT class you choose Sounds like sound Advise! I will show up at Road A with basically a stock car and new (street) tires. Do you have any tires you recomend me tracking down. My local tire guy just gave me a blank stare when I mentioned Road Tracks! LOL Also, what date is this Road A event? I still havent saw it on the home page anywhere. Thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 check here, its the Southeast region site: http://www.nasa-se.com/ registration link is there, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D_Eclipse9916 Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Get through the HPDE levels, try and avoid modifying the car outside of safety equip, and once you're in DE3 or so look at what your car has vs what you want it to have to be competitive in whichever TT class you choose Sounds like sound Advise! I will show up at Road A with basically a stock car and new (street) tires. Do you have any tires you recomend me tracking down. My local tire guy just gave me a blank stare when I mentioned Road Tracks! LOL Also, what date is this Road A event? I still havent saw it on the home page anywhere. Thanks again I currently drive a 99 M3 in TTC and they are competitive in C. Since your just going through the HPDEs, go to a 17x9 or 17x8.5 square setup for wheels with a good 245 or 255 width tire (recommend Dunlop Direzza Star Specs). With the M3 you have to be extremely careful with modifications for C, which is also to your benefit cause your not there yet! My suggestions in order: Maintenance Square wheel/tire setup PFC06s (pfc01s once you start racing just for a bit more initial bite, but the 06s wear like iron and are 95% of the 01) Safety safety safety, once youve addressed a roll bar, harnesses and seats then you can look at other stuff. Shocks and springs with camber plates (will help with tire wear siginificantly!) You wont need much more to be competitive in TTC, I won 2011 NASA nationals this year as well as set the record in TTC with a 1:36.9. Here is the setup, its simple: 99 M3 17x9 with 245 A6s Moton shocks/hypercoil springs stock sways stock weight intake/tune cat-back exhaust upgraded rear LSD Wing Plywood Front Splitter. (yes even unpainted, had to build one real quick at nationals ) Thats it...so dont go crazy with mods/ambitions. An incredible HPDE car would be that above with dunlops instead of hoosiers, and no aero. I will be down at Road Atlanta in December if you will be there, your more than welcome to come talk to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
true520 Posted November 7, 2011 Author Share Posted November 7, 2011 I will be down at Road Atlanta in December if you will be there, your more than welcome to come talk to me. I will take you up on getting some more advice! I am not sure about the car I bought at all. Bought it running, but NOT Moving. Mechanic told me today he was pretty sure it was just a wore out clutch... (got the car from a young kid) He mentioned going back with a competition clutch and lighten flywheel...? Is this something I really need to do...? Because I stopped him at the 2k mark. He seemed to be getting more excited than me! LOL thanks again for the help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drivinhardz06 Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 He mentioned going back with a competition clutch and lighten flywheel...? Is this something I really need to do...? Because I stopped him at the 2k mark. He seemed to be getting more excited than me! LOL thanks again for the help starting out, don't worry about it. but if you eventually want to take advantage of all the free mods, then yes, clutch/FW is free. any weight you can take off the back of the crank will help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
true520 Posted November 7, 2011 Author Share Posted November 7, 2011 starting out, don't worry about it. but if you eventually want to take advantage of all the free mods, then yes, clutch/FW is free. any weight you can take off the back of the crank will help Yeah, I can understand that advise too... I doubt a few extra Lbs off the flywheel will help my lap times any... for now! LOL I think I will just focus on getting the car moving, and spend the xtra $ on a new water pump and thermostat. Of course, I will have to buy a set of tires too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
true520 Posted November 7, 2011 Author Share Posted November 7, 2011 My suggestions in order:Maintenance Square wheel/tire setup PFC06s (pfc01s once you start racing just for a bit more initial bite, but the 06s wear like iron and are 95% of the 01) Safety safety safety, once youve addressed a roll bar, harnesses and seats then you can look at other stuff. Shocks and springs with camber plates (will help with tire wear siginificantly!) Ok, I have looked this over a few times now... And, Im still confused on some. Maintance I understand. I even understand the square wheel thing... I have 17x8s on there now...so I will probably have to go with a 235/40/17 for my first couple events. Shocks, Springs, and camber plates...when the time comes, i will just let the mechanic help me understand those. But, What do you mean by PFC06s? And, do you run a roll bar, seats and harnesses in the TTC class? If so, is that mandatory, or just personal saftey preference.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedengineer Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 But, What do you mean by PFC06s? And, do you run a roll bar, seats and harnesses in the TTC class? If so, is that mandatory, or just personal saftey preference.? By PFC06 he's referring to the brake pad he uses, performance friction I believe. http://www.topbrakes.com/searchResults.php/34829/2/Racing+Brake+Pads/1995+BMW+M3+E36+Chassis?manufacturer_id= The is no requirement for race seats or roll bars in HPDE/TT. That said, they are highly recommended! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerkat Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Yeah, I can understand that advise too... I doubt a few extra Lbs off the flywheel will help my lap times any... for now! LOL When you get tires try and get something with 200 to 300 tread wear. They will work well for street and track. Nitto 555 are 300 I ran them on several different vehicles. Lighting the flywheel will help but since we do not time HPDE laps it does not matter spend your money on track time it will bring down the lap times the fastest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D_Eclipse9916 Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 My suggestions in order:Maintenance Square wheel/tire setup PFC06s (pfc01s once you start racing just for a bit more initial bite, but the 06s wear like iron and are 95% of the 01) Safety safety safety, once youve addressed a roll bar, harnesses and seats then you can look at other stuff. Shocks and springs with camber plates (will help with tire wear siginificantly!) Ok, I have looked this over a few times now... And, Im still confused on some. Maintance I understand. I even understand the square wheel thing... I have 17x8s on there now...so I will probably have to go with a 235/40/17 for my first couple events. Shocks, Springs, and camber plates...when the time comes, i will just let the mechanic help me understand those. But, What do you mean by PFC06s? And, do you run a roll bar, seats and harnesses in the TTC class? If so, is that mandatory, or just personal saftey preference.? As Jason mentioned, pfc06s are brake pads. Get a dedicated set of pads for the track and they will last a long time and have great performance. You dont need safety equipment, but if your spending $800 on tires, $7k on a vehicle...but cheap out on 1k to save your life? I am in TT and went bonkers with safety, full cage, side nets, halo seat, hans, the works. Doing 135 and smacking into a wall doesnt sound pretty to me. Ive smacked a wall (student driving) in a students car at only 40-50mph in a stock m3 and I was in pain for a while, hell I still feel it after a good month or two now. If your on track learning, theres a very important thing to remember. Its not IF, its WHEN you lose control. Then lady luck decides wether your in the wall or not. I spent more in safety on my car than I did buying the damn car! In fact I have 2x the money I have in safety than aftermarket "upgrades". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
true520 Posted November 8, 2011 Author Share Posted November 8, 2011 If your on track learning, theres a very important thing to remember. Its not IF, its WHEN you lose control. Then lady luck decides wether your in the wall or not. I spent more in safety on my car than I did buying the damn car! In fact I have 2x the money I have in safety than aftermarket "upgrades". yeah, I bounced off a wall in Indy...broke my leg. I really didnt know what I hit, just knew I quit tumbling all of the sudden! LOL My poor bike only had 600 miles on it...tore the tank off, dented both rims, bent both forks, and threw the gauge cluster into the crowd! Way back in 97, and I can still remember it like it was this morning...minus all the PAIN of course. LOL I guess it all depends on how much I like the TT classes. My intitial thoughts are to just go out with the M3 and play some...see if I catch the "Racing BUG" again. If I just had to race again, then I thought I would go to the Miata or 944 Spec class. I am getting off the original subject a little here...but does the TT class give you the same "RUSH" as side by side, croner to corner racing? My lovely wife found my "wish list" for the M3 and said WHAT THE....why not just buy a car already purposely built?? She had a good point... because If I buy track only wheels, springs, rotors, pads, and tires...not to mention the bill is already around a 1000 just to get her rolling again... I will be over the 8k mark in a STREET Car. And surely after I put the rall cage, seats and harnesses in her, she wont be worthy to drive to a jobsite anymore...LOL Thanks for all the input too... Im definitely using it. And, After looking over all the "wants" last night, I am now back to deciding what would be best for next season. ugggg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 TT has its own unique thrill - stringing together a 100% perfect lap is difficult and rewarding when you do get a great one - when the car, track, weather, traffic and that nut behind the wheel all align.. nothing like it. One of the things I also enjoy is the suspense of how exactly the standings will shake out - you never reaaalllyyy know who ran what kind of times, usually just your own if you have a laptimer so there's that suspense after every session to see how that session's results shook out. There's also suspense over each day (or the whole event if its Nationals!) of who is going to get faster and potentially pass you in the standings or that suspense of will you get fast enough to pass those in front of you or not. Even if that kind of on and off track thrill is not quite enough for you, it's a good place to go through before racing as it'll make you better over there as well Once I started racing I still run Time Trials as well - they're two different animals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drivinhardz06 Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Does the TT class give you the same "RUSH" as side by side, croner to corner racing? I'm in the minority but I like it better than (club) racing. If I had a full time team back at the shop, with 2 dozen guys building me new crap and 15 spare chassis' laying around and a huge bank account, w2w would be a freaking blast. I'd drive like a raped ape. To get to the "Thrill" level in w2w though you really are risking the car and for me, it's just not worth it. The amount of "boneheadedness" I've observed in my (short) w2w career is stunning. To me there is nothing more thrilling than hanging the car on the razor's edge, even if it's just for one lap, to wring every last half a tenth from it. To me, putting the car in the garage on a sunday night thinking (win or lose) "that was all it had" is supremely satisfying. No crazy strategy, no trillion variables outside your control, no dozen other idiots in your way doing bonehead stuff, just you and the track and the clock. To me it's raw pure competition, put up or shut up. It is also a great technical challenge which I really enjoy. If I could hand pick who I wanted to w2w with, it would be a different story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 I like the chess match, the cat and mouse, the pick and run, or stop and park, lay back and wait or attack attack attack, offense/defense of w2w. But TT is where I learned the car control to do all that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
true520 Posted November 8, 2011 Author Share Posted November 8, 2011 To get to the "Thrill" level in w2w though you really are risking the car and for me, it's just not worth it. The amount of "boneheadedness" I've observed in my (short) w2w career is stunning. Hmmm...I must admit, after thinking on it for a few minutes, I believe everyone of my track crashes (except one), was envolving the mistakes of others. That definitely helps me lean towards the decision of just taking the 2012 season slow...and getting used to driving a car at speed on the tracks. I am sure the acceleration and the braking markers will be way different than the 600cc bikes...but I am also thinking the corner speed along with the ability to slide a little more safely may make for real close lap times. The only thing that keeps me thinking about the w2w classes tho is the simple fact, I never did qualify well. Come race time, I always turned faster lap times than i did in practice, qualifying, or track days...sometimes A lot faster! Has to be something to do with the "heat of battle!" LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dans2k Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 I like the chess match, the cat and mouse, the pick and run, or stop and park, lay back and wait or attack attack attack, offense/defense of w2w. But TT is where I learned the car control to do all that. the thing I like most about TT is we run our fast laps sunday morning so I like to see how much beer I can drink saturday night and go out on track still half drunk also I like that I never seem to ever have to wash my car because I usualy crash before it gets dirty and john has to paint it again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboShortBus Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 the thing I like most about TT is we run our fast laps sunday morning so I like to see how much beer I can drink saturday night and go out on track still half drunk I realize that there's a chance that the sentence above was made tongue-in-cheek, but it is full of more stupidity than the 47 page thread about hardtops. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dans2k Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 ok sorry I was trying to be funny I wouldn't go out on a track with other people drunk well except maybe on GT5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedengineer Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Actually, I thought Dan's post was pretty darn funny, I laughed anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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