JSG1901 Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Reason: [in the words of the person who suggested this change] I'm tired of spending $1000's of dollars only to show up at the race track and only race one or two cars in my class. I come to race other cars not do touring laps. This change would have the most effect in GTS1 and GTS2 since most of the other european marques are lower horsepower. You should see some crossovers from regional racers in the SCCA production classes. The series needs to grow a lot. I'm honestly ready to leave the series for Spec Miata just due to the small fields. I would really like to race a minimum of 10 cars in my class every weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottbm3 Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Reason: I'm tired of spending $1000's of dollars only to show up at the race track and only race one or two cars in my class. I come to race other cars not do touring laps. This change would have the most effect in GTS1 and GTS2 since most of the other european marques are lower horsepower. You should see some crossovers from regional racers in the SCCA production classes. The series needs to grow a lot. I'm honestly ready to leave the series for Spec Miata just due to the small fields. I would really like to race a minimum of 10 cars in my class every weekend. Just like all the other times this has come up, I'm against it. It's the German Touring Series. Class sizes differ from race to race and from region to region. Also you would take away some racers form ST/PT classes, so it really doesn't make much since. We're steadily growing and doing fine with the German only series. -Scott B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcrist Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 I'm not opposed to it at all but wouldn't you just be swapping cars/drivers between groups? Who is out there that can't race because they drive a Jag? GTS2 is huge here in MA, maybe you need to get out of your living room Scott, and get down to VIR! or RATL.. or CMP, or Summit, or..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
good hands Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 I am not opposed to a European touring car series. Bring on the Ferraris... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trackrocket Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Sounds like an interesting proposal - let's create a few more scenarios like Scott's Ferrari one...something to consider. I do not, however, want to race against FIATS and such! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CARVAL Motorsports Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Sorry, not for it. I have been on the boat since the beginning, don't see it that way. What would have happened at the Championship? It would potentially lead up to splitting of the series/classes. Scott, I am very sorry that I haven't been able to be out and support the series, but I would say, safely I beleive, that economics is still playing its hand in our region (or am I the only one??? ). It is however, more rewarding to trounce 10-15 cars than just 3 or 4. I don't agree necesarily, that anyone would crossover from SCCA. Keep building, keep cheerleading the series, and the classes will remain solid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Graber Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Define European car. Build location? Company incorporation? Is a Volvo Eurpoean? Is a Chrysler European? Is a Mercedes European? Is a BMW European? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbryant61 Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 If the series gets changed, I'm building a Volvo 240. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmilli319 Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Define European car.Build location? Company incorporation? Is a Volvo Eurpoean? Is a Chrysler European? Is a Mercedes European? Is a BMW European? Its bound to come up. In this global economy it will be debated. Fiat owns more than 50% of chrysler...so maybe I'll be able to race an SRT8 challenger or a viper BMW has made cars in north america and south africa for over a decade. I'm pretty sure the 2000 Porsche boxster I had was built in some eastern european country instead of germany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trackrocket Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Your Boxster was built in Finland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSG1901 Posted November 8, 2011 Author Share Posted November 8, 2011 I'm not opposed to it at all but wouldn't you just be swapping cars/drivers between groups? Who is out there that can't race because they drive a Jag? GTS2 is huge here in MA, maybe you need to get out of your living room Scott, and get down to VIR! or RATL.. or CMP, or Summit, or..... LOL...actually, I just copied what the person who suggested this wrote. After I'd posted it I read the text and it sounds like I'm the one complaining about small fields. In fact, we've had great GTS2 fields in Great Lakes. Hm...maybe I'll go edit that original proposal text.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
good hands Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 There is no reason we can't be a snob series. Any time someone wants to join we can vote on whether their Marque is worthy of being on the track with us. Yes list : Ferrari, Maserati, Alfa, Lancia, Abarth, Aston Martin, Bizzarini, Bugatti, Jaguar. Maybe: Saab, Volvo, Puegeot, MG, Fiat, Citroen, Renault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottbm3 Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 There is no reason we can't be a snob series. Any time someone wants to join we can vote on whether their Marque is worthy of being on the track with us. Yes list : Ferrari, Maserati, Alfa, Lancia, Abarth, Aston Martin, Bizzarini, Bugatti, Jaguar. Maybe: Saab, Volvo, Puegeot, MG, Fiat, Citroen, Renault. Or we can just leave it as it's been since it's conception and remain the German Touring Series !! If people want to race their non German "European Cars" then start a series and build it up from scratch, just like GTS did !! -Scott B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
good hands Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Or we can just leave it as it's been since it's conception -Scott B. Can someone tell me how GTS was started ? I may leave the series depending on the answer ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grifkylian Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 The new ETS (European Touring Series)? Might not be a bad idea and would definitely be somewhat easy to convert GTS to it. We could just use basically all the rules and regulations from the current GTS rules (power to weight, etc.)... Use the same formulas for GTS1-U and simply make them 'ETS1, ETS2, ETS3...' and so on. I'm sure there are saabs and volvos that want to run. And I'm sure there's somebody who's already built the new FIAT 500 (yes i know it's brought here by an American carmaker but it's still European nonetheless. I mean besides Ferrari's, Lambos, Maserati's, Saab's and Volvo's, there really isn't a chance of a French car showing up to race... also maybe add a special class for the older/classic European cars. I'm sure some older gentlemen would love to race their MG's, Triumph's, and Alfas and BMW 2002's outside of their usual VSCCA event... There is no reason we can't be a snob series. Any time someone wants to join we can vote on whether their Marque is worthy of being on the track with us. Yes list : Ferrari, Maserati, Alfa, Lancia, Abarth, Aston Martin, Bizzarini, Bugatti, Jaguar. Maybe: Saab, Volvo, Peugeot, MG, Fiat, Citroen, Renault. Since it's a rare sight to see French race cars over here, I'd say the yes list is good Let's face it. A Volvo or Saab would normally get eaten alive in ST-2 by the Vettes and Evos, so we should at least give them a chance no? And more varieties = more entries = more publicity which might = more contingencies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSG1901 Posted November 9, 2011 Author Share Posted November 9, 2011 Ah, but you're forgetting Bryan Cohn and his Peugeots.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grifkylian Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Ah, but you're forgetting Bryan Cohn and his Peugeots.... Damn I missed that one lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RACER-X Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 So the new Buick Regal could race in GTS. It's built at the Opel plant in Rüsselsheim, Germany and is a rebadged Opel Insignia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texase30 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Whatever it takes to get more racers in class is fine with me. I recently joined NASA because of small class fields with BMW CCA Club Racing. My first race with NASA has 3 cars in my class I think. Not sure where the 13/13 discussion is buy I am in favor of keeping it but with some leeway if video supports it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSCoupe Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 At the regional level the Series Director can always allow an non-German car to compete in GTS, and that is fine with me as long as they get feedback from the competitors who are actually driving German cars. But as far as changing it from GTS to ETS, I am against it. Car counts have continued to increase as is, so I don't see the need for "help". NASA has always been proud of the fact that they have a class for everyone, and this is still true for the other European marques without them running in GTS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cstreit911 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 For those voting FOR "ETS" It's easy to romanticize having some cool Ferrari's, Maserati's, and Jag's out there mixing it up with us, but where are those cars? They aren't beating down the doors to join us. Most likely it would be a smattering of cars from all over the map and tragically dilute our series identity. Remember that Ford, Chrysler, and many others have as much or more manufacturing overseas... So IF we make the series ETS, you will be racing against a LOT of cars you probably didn't expect. I think what you really want is ATS, the "Axis" Touring Series. We already have a series for this, it's ST and SU, and TTS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPower6er Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 I really don't see the reason to change this successful series. My strong vote is YES for GTS; NO for changing it to ETS!! PD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKKrause Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Or we can just leave it as it's been since it's conception and remain the German Touring Series !! If people want to race their non German "European Cars" then start a series and build it up from scratch, just like GTS did !! -Scott B. Using this same argument, ... we can just leave 13/13 as it's been since conception.... ...If people want to race in a non 13/13 series, then start a series and build it up .... etc.... you get the point.... ;v) -Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottbm3 Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Or we can just leave it as it's been since it's conception and remain the German Touring Series !! If people want to race their non German "European Cars" then start a series and build it up from scratch, just like GTS did !! -Scott B. Using this same argument, ... we can just leave 13/13 as it's been since conception.... ...If people want to race in a non 13/13 series, then start a series and build it up .... etc.... you get the point.... ;v) -Chuck Not really, as one has to do with a rule that's not been enforced and is redundant to what's already in the CCR and the other has to do with allowing cars that already have a place to race in NASA into a "Specific Marque" based series. You see it one way I see it another.... -Scott B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cstreit911 Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Not really, as one has to do with a rule that's not been enforced and is redundant to what's already in the CCR and the other has to do with allowing cars that already have a place to race in NASA into a "Specific Marque" based series. You see it one way I see it another.... -Scott B. Exactly. THere is already a place for these cars. Why would we even propose opening it up to other cars participating in other series? It makes as much sense as saying it's "GTS/SpecMiata." Again, the romantic notion that we'll get some great Porsche/BMW/Ferrari/Aston Martin battles is great, but this isn't the reality of what will happen. We don't see these cars trying to get in other classes so what we're looking at is diluting the series and continual bickering about whether a FOrd Cosworth or the like is "European". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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