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Pact: no crying just racing once rules come out for 2012....

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stevepoe
Mine is a stock GT abs and when looking it appears the master cylinder is larger for Ford Racing and GT500 abs.

 

I am no expert though so I am sure someone knows exact differences by sight.

 

my understanding is 10 ,11 ,12 all run a smaller master cylinder along with a different abs system. boss s and r cars are retrofitted with the older 05-09 booster and master cylinders along with the gt500 hcu and race abs module as used on the s and c models

 

you ran WC with a standard abs sytem ?

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D Algozine
at 9.1 I will be pulling the abs for the extra 25-30 hp . I will be making sure though to keep the lower hp tune in my tuner so when it rains the abs will be plugged back in and hp changed back to 9.5..........

 

 

One of the points that I made. ABS is huge advantage in the rain, regardless of a little extra weight. I was thinking that someone may do exactly what your suggesting. I don't know the exact interpretation of the rule, but the new rule does stipulate that you can't just pull a fuse to eliminate the ABS. You may want to get clarification.

Also, according the dyno rules, you may want to clarify ....."(Note that one certification can be valid for an entire season provided that no performance modifications are performed to the car)."

Edited by Guest

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wstukas
at 9.1 I will be pulling the abs for the extra 25-30 hp . I will be making sure though to keep the lower hp tune in my tuner so when it rains the abs will be plugged back in and hp changed back to 9.5..........

 

 

One of the points that I made. ABS is huge advantage in the rain, regardless of a little extra weight. I was thinking that someone may do exactly what your suggesting. I don't know the exact interpretation of the rule, but the new rule does stipulate that you can't just pull a fuse to eliminate the ABS. You may want to get clarification.

 

 

It states that it must be unplugged. My interpretation; it can be on the car and plumbed hydraulically...just unplugged awaiting the rain. I'm unplugging mine (does not work anyway) and removing all my ballast for my new power/weight and going racing.

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D Algozine
at 9.1 I will be pulling the abs for the extra 25-30 hp . I will be making sure though to keep the lower hp tune in my tuner so when it rains the abs will be plugged back in and hp changed back to 9.5..........

 

 

One of the points that I made. ABS is huge advantage in the rain, regardless of a little extra weight. I was thinking that someone may do exactly what your suggesting. I don't know the exact interpretation of the rule, but the new rule does stipulate that you can't just pull a fuse to eliminate the ABS. You may want to get clarification.

 

 

It states that it must be unplugged. My interpretation; it can be on the car and plumbed hydraulically...just unplugged awaiting the rain. I'm unplugging mine (does not work anyway) and removing all my ballast for my new power/weight and going racing.

Good point. I reread that, and I must have missed it the first time. That seems strange. Who is going to check to verify that all HCU's in every car are unplugged after each qualifying and each race the whole weekend? It's it pretty simple to just plug it in, especially if there is no dyno at the event. How many hoods get opened at a race when a dyno is not there?

Which brings up a another question. If "tunes" are changed at the track. How can it be verified what tune is in a car at any given time, if it doesn't go on the rollers after each qual or race, or what if a dyno isn't present that weekend?

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marshallmosty

Guys,

What we were going for is you show up for a race weekend (or season) with a dyno sheet which puts you at a particular P/W. If you want to change the tune during the weekend and manipulate the ABS, you will need to dyno at the track. No dyno, no retune.

 

As many chips have multiple settings for different tunes, there needs to be the new dyno and not just, "Hey, setting one is no ABS and setting 2 is FR ABS".

 

We were trying to eliminate the situation that Steve brought up regarding "waiting for rain".

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stevepoe
Guys,

What we were going for is you show up for a race weekend (or season) with a dyno sheet which puts you at a particular P/W. If you want to change the tune during the weekend and manipulate the ABS, you will need to dyno at the track. No dyno, no retune.

 

As many chips have multiple settings for different tunes, there needs to be the new dyno and not just, "Hey, setting one is no ABS and setting 2 is FR ABS".

 

We were trying to eliminate the situation that Steve brought up regarding "waiting for rain".

 

 

Doesn't say that in the rules ? what difference does it make what my dyno to weight says ? it's still power to weight post race.

 

I've rolled over the scales before with less then my weight on the window and on my sheet . I was sent to the dyno and made less hp then my sheet said as well that matched my weight that said day. was still legal.

 

You guys opened a big ass can with all this power to weight changes and crap in my opinion. Race directors hardly check crap before . I can't wait to see what it looks like when 12 ai cars are sitting post race and you guys are trying to figure out who is what and what is who.

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marshallmosty

Steve,

You can only have one windshield sticker. It's either marked with your minimum weight for whatever tier you have chosen, based on your HP/TQ. Your dyno sheet on file with your director should match the sticker.

 

I agree that if you are lighter than your sticker, and a dyno is available, that you can go re-cert to your post-weight weight.

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stevepoe

In all my years of being around this I have yet to see a car get dq'd because he didn't match his sticker on the window.

 

He may have been light but made up for it on the dyno with less hp. Course I can see your point if you don't have a dyno but for us "thankfully" Dave Royce does his best to have a dyno at the track.

 

regardless, If my power to weight post race doesn't match my dyno sheet or sticker on my window but I dyno the power to weight that I should be then I'm still legal.

 

Heck, I have been to some regions that don't even set up scales ? Have figured that one out just yet ?

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stevepoe
In all my years of being around this I have yet to see a car get dq'd because he didn't match his sticker on the window.

 

He may have been light but made up for it on the dyno with less hp. Course I can see your point if you don't have a dyno but for us "thankfully" Dave Royce does his best to have a dyno at the track.

 

regardless, If my power to weight post race doesn't match my dyno sheet or sticker on my window but I dyno the power to weight that I should be then I'm still legal.

 

Heck, I have been to some regions that don't even set up scales ? Have figured that one out just yet ?

 

I'm not trying to give you a hard time Marshall but your rules say nothing in my mind of why I can't do what I'm wanting to do with the rain and tune situation. If I missed it can you please point me to the rules section that would clarify this ? I know of a few others that have this very same idea.

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UBR
We were trying to eliminate the situation that Steve brought up regarding "waiting for rain".

That may be what you were trying to do, but that's not how the new rules read. Nothing I saw written that doesn't stop someone from re-tuning and handing a new dyno sheet to their director for a new windshield sticker.

 

If "tunes" are changed at the track. How can it be verified what tune is in a car at any given time, if it doesn't go on the rollers after each qual or race, or what if a dyno isn't present that weekend?

Great point. Kind of makes you wonder why so many track records were broken this year, but mostly at tracks that didn't have a dyno... Hmmm.

 

j

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stevepoe

tune or a different carb jet or a twist of the dist. will result in the same situation.

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marshallmosty

Dave,

At times, we will seal the hood of someone who "may" be over and have them report to a dyno after the weekend is over. I understand you tuning for the situation. I understand what the rules "say". The intent was to not have folks flip flopping depending on weather, but I see no way to police that with the current set of rules.

 

I know you aren't knocking me personally. I'm just the one who opened my mouth... No worries. I have thick skin (however, I did cry a little on my way to work)

 

I've thought the same thing you have regarding pulling ABS for certain tracks/situations.

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D Algozine
tune or a different carb jet or a twist of the dist. will result in the same situation.

 

Steve,

My opinion. I understand what your saying, but per the rules it is illegal. If someone changes a setting, they are supposed to re-dyno. The fact that you/we think that changes have been made in the past illegaly and they got away with it, doesn't make it legal now. Heres the way it reads:

....."(Note that one certification can be valid for an entire season provided that no performance modifications are performed to the car)."

Technically anything to do with the engine would be considered a performance modifacation, inlcuding spark plug, wires, air filter, etc.. But I think we should adhere to the intent of the rule, which I have always assumed meant any deliberate change that would knowingly alter performance, such as distributor tweak, carb jet, re-tune computer, modify air intake, etc...

 

This is the inherent difficulty of allowing more and more technology into the series. It's very difficult to police. NASA doesn't have the resourses. Several guys have voiced there opinion about moving forward with technology, but how do you police it all? So many racers have used the term, "lets just race". What does that mean? How about K.I.S.S., then we can "just race", and not have to deal with so much BS. It's only going to get more complicated in the future.

The tail is wagging the dog. Nearly every single AI car gets stripped to a shell and then built back up to a race car. Why is so important to attempt to keep up with manufacturers (or AI's new definition of manufactureres)? I understand certain major components from production cars need to be considered, but not everything.

Marshall, I appreciate your input on this forum and the explanations that you are providing. I assume your last post that was addressed to me (Dave) was meant for Steve. But regardless, I don't think any of us should make you the scapegoat for attempting to give us all the perspective of the directors. Very difficult job and typically thankless. But thanks.

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stevepoe
tune or a different carb jet or a twist of the dist. will result in the same situation.

 

Steve,

My opinion. I understand what your saying, but per the rules it is illegal. If someone changes a setting, they are supposed to re-dyno. The fact that you/we think that changes have been made in the past illegaly and they got away with it, doesn't make it legal now. Heres the way it reads:

....."(Note that one certification can be valid for an entire season provided that no performance modifications are performed to the car)."

Technically anything to do with the engine would be considered a performance modifacation, inlcuding spark plug, wires, air filter, etc.. But I think we should adhere to the intent of the rule, which I have always assumed meant any deliberate change that would knowingly alter performance, such as distributor tweak, carb jet, re-tune computer, modify air intake, etc...

 

This is the inherent difficulty of allowing more and more technology into the series. It's very difficult to police. NASA doesn't have the resourses. Several guys have voiced there opinion about moving forward with technology, but how do you police it all? So many racers have used the term, "lets just race". What does that mean? How about K.I.S.S., then we can "just race", and not have to deal with so much BS. It's only going to get more complicated in the future.

The tail is wagging the dog. Nearly every single AI car gets stripped to a shell and then built back up to a race car. Why is so important to attempt to keep up with manufacturers (or AI's new definition of manufactureres)? I understand certain major components from production cars need to be considered, but not everything.

Marshall, I appreciate your input on this forum and the explanations that you are providing. I assume your last post that was addressed to me (Dave) was meant for Steve. But regardless, I don't think any of us should make you the scapegoat for attempting to give us all the perspective of the directors. Very difficult job and typically thankless. But thanks.

 

 

I have two dyno sheets . one for 9.5 and one for 9.1........

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UBR
I know you aren't knocking me personally. I'm just the one who opened my mouth... No worries. I have thick skin (however, I did cry a little on my way to work)

Marshall,

 

I was actually the one knocking the rules, Dave gets a pass... this time

 

And I wasn't knocking you at all, just the rules as written, Something gets written, but there is an underlying "intent". This has happened several times the last couple of years. And this is where it gets wierd. Rules get published, we build/alter/modify to those rules and then at some event are told that everything you did meets the rule as written, but our "intent" was actually something else, therefore you're illegal and have to change it.

 

If there is an "intent", then write the rule that way. Or at least include clarification to give us some guidance. Like, "HP/Tq is based on the formula, abs must be unplugged if present to run 'non-abs' HP, only one dyno sheet may be submitted per weekend". Or include something about tech where cars are checked after a race to see if the plug is on or not. There are ways to write intent into rules. I write health care policy for a huge teaching institution. Or ask any lawyer.

 

j

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D Algozine
tune or a different carb jet or a twist of the dist. will result in the same situation.

 

Steve,

My opinion. I understand what your saying, but per the rules it is illegal. If someone changes a setting, they are supposed to re-dyno. The fact that you/we think that changes have been made in the past illegaly and they got away with it, doesn't make it legal now. Heres the way it reads:

....."(Note that one certification can be valid for an entire season provided that no performance modifications are performed to the car)."

Technically anything to do with the engine would be considered a performance modifacation, inlcuding spark plug, wires, air filter, etc.. But I think we should adhere to the intent of the rule, which I have always assumed meant any deliberate change that would knowingly alter performance, such as distributor tweak, carb jet, re-tune computer, modify air intake, etc...

 

This is the inherent difficulty of allowing more and more technology into the series. It's very difficult to police. NASA doesn't have the resourses. Several guys have voiced there opinion about moving forward with technology, but how do you police it all? So many racers have used the term, "lets just race". What does that mean? How about K.I.S.S., then we can "just race", and not have to deal with so much BS. It's only going to get more complicated in the future.

The tail is wagging the dog. Nearly every single AI car gets stripped to a shell and then built back up to a race car. Why is so important to attempt to keep up with manufacturers (or AI's new definition of manufactureres)? I understand certain major components from production cars need to be considered, but not everything.

Marshall, I appreciate your input on this forum and the explanations that you are providing. I assume your last post that was addressed to me (Dave) was meant for Steve. But regardless, I don't think any of us should make you the scapegoat for attempting to give us all the perspective of the directors. Very difficult job and typically thankless. But thanks.

 

 

I have two dyno sheets . one for 9.5 and one for 9.1........

 

Something I think the directors should clarify. Again, just my opinion, but I woud think that if a change was made you would need to re-cert.

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Adam Ginsberg
Steve,

You can only have one windshield sticker. It's either marked with your minimum weight for whatever tier you have chosen, based on your HP/TQ. Your dyno sheet on file with your director should match the sticker.

 

Let me expand this comment from Marshall a bit - when I was the director in TX, we used to do a yearly "dyno-day", where the AI and CMC'ers would come and dyno their cars together. That was their "race dyno" sheet. It had to match the weight of the car, as it came off the track after a race. If the weight was lower than the dyno sheet permitted, the end result was a DQ. This was before we had actual windshield stickers. If a dyno was available at the track (very rare at that time in TX), and the post-race weight was lower than the dyno sheet indicated, the car would be sent for a re-cert. If the post-race dyno and post-race weight was all within range - good to go. If not - DQ.

 

Later, once the stickers were implemented, the numbers on the sticker had to match the actual, post-race weight. If there wasn't a dyno available at the track, and the driver came in light, we would seal the hood, and that driver would re-dyno his/her car, with a NASA official present. It was done several times in TX, to both AI and CMC cars. Was it perfect? Puhleez. But, we did the best we could with the resources we had available to us.

 

I agree that if you are lighter than your sticker, and a dyno is available, that you can go re-cert to your post-weight weight.

 

This is what we did in TX, as well as what we do in CA. If a driver comes in lighter than his sticker, and there's a dyno available, we send him to be re-certified. If his post-race dyno is ok with his post-race weight, but neither matches his sticker, he's still ok. If he's too high on the dyno, and his post-race weight isn't enough.....DQ.

 

If there is NO dyno available at the track, and a driver comes in light post-race based on his windshield sticker, it's a DQ as we have no other means to validate the car.

 

Regarding changes done to a car - as was explained to me by an AI official when I started racing in 2003, if ANY change is done on the car AFTER it's initial dyno that could effect it's power output, then a re-cert is required. Changing jets, changing plugs, changing timing, changing injectors, re-flashing the ECU, switching to a different ECU program, etc, all qualify as changes that could effect power output.

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D Algozine
Steve,

You can only have one windshield sticker. It's either marked with your minimum weight for whatever tier you have chosen, based on your HP/TQ. Your dyno sheet on file with your director should match the sticker.

 

Let me expand this comment from Marshall a bit - when I was the director in TX, we used to do a yearly "dyno-day", where the AI and CMC'ers would come and dyno their cars together. That was their "race dyno" sheet. It had to match the weight of the car, as it came off the track after a race. If the weight was lower than the dyno sheet permitted, the end result was a DQ. This was before we had actual windshield stickers. If a dyno was available at the track (very rare at that time in TX), and the post-race weight was lower than the dyno sheet indicated, the car would be sent for a re-cert. If the post-race dyno and post-race weight was all within range - good to go. If not - DQ.

 

Later, once the stickers were implemented, the numbers on the sticker had to match the actual, post-race weight. If there wasn't a dyno available at the track, and the driver came in light, we would seal the hood, and that driver would re-dyno his/her car, with a NASA official present. It was done several times in TX, to both AI and CMC cars. Was it perfect? Puhleez. But, we did the best we could with the resources we had available to us.

 

I agree that if you are lighter than your sticker, and a dyno is available, that you can go re-cert to your post-weight weight.

 

This is what we did in TX, as well as what we do in CA. If a driver comes in lighter than his sticker, and there's a dyno available, we send him to be re-certified. If his post-race dyno is ok with his post-race weight, but neither matches his sticker, he's still ok. If he's too high on the dyno, and his post-race weight isn't enough.....DQ.

 

If there is NO dyno available at the track, and a driver comes in light post-race based on his windshield sticker, it's a DQ as we have no other means to validate the car.

 

Regarding changes done to a car - as was explained to me by an AI official when I started racing in 2003, if ANY change is done on the car AFTER it's initial dyno that could effect it's power output, then a re-cert is required. Changing jets, changing plugs, changing timing, changing injectors, re-flashing the ECU, switching to a different ECU program, etc, all qualify as changes that could effect power output.

 

Another issue is that dyno pulls can't be completed in the rain, due to slippage of the wheels. So, even if dyno is available, no way to verify.

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D Algozine
at 9.1 I will be pulling the abs for the extra 25-30 hp . I will be making sure though to keep the lower hp tune in my tuner so when it rains the abs will be plugged back in and hp changed back to 9.5..........

 

I thought the FR ABS is of no real advantage ? At least that was the agruement last month. Since it's a weight penalty know, why bother?

Also, I thought, you couldn't just unplug it, and that there was re-plumping that was involved. And dollars that had to be spend and .........it wasn't that simple ?? Which is it?

I'm sort of busting your chops, but really these new statements are different from the previous information that was discussed.

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edhunter

A racer in our region sets his car up differently depending on the track we're racing on. VIR = big track = big hp and added ballast. Summit Point = short track = different tune for lower HP and removes ballast. A new dyno sheet is handed to our director before each event. His car (not mine) has been dyno'ed after a couple of wins and has been legal every time. I don't see a problem with this approach.

And another thing that I totally forgot to petition for during the mad season.... Why is it us carb guys are stuck with the same jets during the year?? This is retarded.... that's like saying the EFI guys have to pull their O2 sensors. We should be allowed to change jets based on the weather and O2 sensor readings. Changing jets doesn't necessarily give you more power, but it'll sure save an engine. EFI engines do it, so I should be able to do it. Everyone who drives a EFI car knows it makes more power at 70º in October than it does at 104º in July.

I'll have to make a note so I don't forget next year...

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stevepoe
at 9.1 I will be pulling the abs for the extra 25-30 hp . I will be making sure though to keep the lower hp tune in my tuner so when it rains the abs will be plugged back in and hp changed back to 9.5..........

 

I thought the FR ABS is of no real advantage ? At least that was the agruement last month. Since it's a weight penalty know, why bother?

Also, I thought, you couldn't just unplug it, and that there was re-plumping that was involved. And dollars that had to be spend and .........it wasn't that simple ?? Which is it?

I'm sort of busting your chops, but really these new statements are different from the previous information that was discussed.

 

sorry , you didn't get those comments from me about a abs system being and needing re-pluming.I had doubts it could be done years back but I have ran a few cmc cars that are by passed . I know of a few that say it can't be done.

 

I will still stick with the abs being no real advantage in the dry for us in american iron but obviously everyone knows it works in the rain. I've talked with a few that have no problem giving it up for 9.1 over 9.5 . shows you what the really think about it in the dry doesn't it ?

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blackbolt9
This is the inherent difficulty of allowing more and more technology into the series. It's very difficult to police. NASA doesn't have the resourses. Several guys have voiced there opinion about moving forward with technology, but how do you police it all? So many racers have used the term, "lets just race". What does that mean? How about K.I.S.S., then we can "just race", and not have to deal with so much BS. It's only going to get more complicated in the future.

The tail is wagging the dog. Nearly every single AI car gets stripped to a shell and then built back up to a race car. Why is so important to attempt to keep up with manufacturers (or AI's new definition of manufactureres)? I understand certain major components from production cars need to be considered, but not everything.

 

Precidence has been set to move along with technology by allowing fuel injection and all the other electronics instead of sticking with carburetors and three wires. I've said it before, if you don't want to keep up with technology you may as well just call it a vintage series and stay with the old stuff. If you want to make sure it's a pure drivers' series then you better just pick one make and model and have a rule package that doesn't try to encapsulate a whole bunch of different senarios. American Iron is neither of those things, and if either one is what you want to race, there are already other series that exist for those examples. The directors are doing their best to try and make it fair between cars and still allow as wide a variety as possible. Excluding newer equipment just because there is more technology behind it doesn't follow the scope of the series, tech may well have to find ways to cope with that but where there is a will there is a way.

 

at 9.1 I will be pulling the abs for the extra 25-30 hp . I will be making sure though to keep the lower hp tune in my tuner so when it rains the abs will be plugged back in and hp changed back to 9.5..........

 

I thought the FR ABS is of no real advantage ? At least that was the agruement last month. Since it's a weight penalty know, why bother?

Also, I thought, you couldn't just unplug it, and that there was re-plumping that was involved. And dollars that had to be spend and .........it wasn't that simple ?? Which is it?

I'm sort of busting your chops, but really these new statements are different from the previous information that was discussed.

 

Ok, I'll bite.

 

You can unplug the unit and the car will still drive and stop and all that jazz. But since there is no proper front to rear biasing, you can not stop as well as a plugged in unit or a system that has been replumbed to use a proportioning valve to get the proper biasing. AN UNPLUGGED ABS MODULE WILL NOT PERFORM AS WELL AS A PROPERLY DESIGNED BRAKING SYSTEM (whether or not that system has ABS). Hopefully that will sink in one of these days and you will understand the arguement but for some reason I doubt it.

 

I'd still like to see the data that determined the new power to weight ratios.

 

3600#/9.5=379hp*9= 3411# 3400#/9.5=358hp*9=3221#

3600#/9.0=400hp 3400#/9.0=377hp

 

I have a VERY hard time believing ABS is worth almost 200# or 20hp which is exactly why S197s staying in AI will definitely be getting rid of ABS or running around in dead last if they choose I suppose. 20hp is worth alot more lap time than "super trick ABS yO!"

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D Algozine
This is the inherent difficulty of allowing more and more technology into the series. It's very difficult to police. NASA doesn't have the resourses. Several guys have voiced there opinion about moving forward with technology, but how do you police it all? So many racers have used the term, "lets just race". What does that mean? How about K.I.S.S., then we can "just race", and not have to deal with so much BS. It's only going to get more complicated in the future.

The tail is wagging the dog. Nearly every single AI car gets stripped to a shell and then built back up to a race car. Why is so important to attempt to keep up with manufacturers (or AI's new definition of manufactureres)? I understand certain major components from production cars need to be considered, but not everything.

 

Precidence has been set to move along with technology by allowing fuel injection and all the other electronics instead of sticking with carburetors and three wires. I've said it before, if you don't want to keep up with technology you may as well just call it a vintage series and stay with the old stuff. If you want to make sure it's a pure drivers' series then you better just pick one make and model and have a rule package that doesn't try to encapsulate a whole bunch of different senarios. American Iron is neither of those things, and if either one is what you want to race, there are already other series that exist for those examples. The directors are doing their best to try and make it fair between cars and still allow as wide a variety as possible. Excluding newer equipment just because there is more technology behind it doesn't follow the scope of the series, tech may well have to find ways to cope with that but where there is a will there is a way.

 

at 9.1 I will be pulling the abs for the extra 25-30 hp . I will be making sure though to keep the lower hp tune in my tuner so when it rains the abs will be plugged back in and hp changed back to 9.5..........

 

I thought the FR ABS is of no real advantage ? At least that was the agruement last month. Since it's a weight penalty know, why bother?

Also, I thought, you couldn't just unplug it, and that there was re-plumping that was involved. And dollars that had to be spend and .........it wasn't that simple ?? Which is it?

I'm sort of busting your chops, but really these new statements are different from the previous information that was discussed.

 

Ok, I'll bite.

 

You can unplug the unit and the car will still drive and stop and all that jazz. But since there is no proper front to rear biasing, you can not stop as well as a plugged in unit or a system that has been replumbed to use a proportioning valve to get the proper biasing. AN UNPLUGGED ABS MODULE WILL NOT PERFORM AS WELL AS A PROPERLY DESIGNED BRAKING SYSTEM (whether or not that system has ABS). Hopefully that will sink in one of these days and you will understand the arguement but for some reason I doubt it.

 

I'd still like to see the data that determined the new power to weight ratios.

 

3600#/9.5=379hp*9= 3411# 3400#/9.5=358hp*9=3221#

3600#/9.0=400hp 3400#/9.0=377hp

 

I have a VERY hard time believing ABS is worth almost 200# or 20hp which is exactly why S197s staying in AI will definitely be getting rid of ABS or running around in dead last if they choose I suppose. 20hp is worth alot more lap time than "super trick ABS yO!"

 

Believe it or not.....I understand the need to include various new technologies. But the reality is that current resources already don't permit the proper policing of the current rules and systems. So, by embracing more of the new technology it's only going to be more difficult.

Examples:

Per the new rules - plugging and unplugging of ABS. Is every car going to be checked, every session?

Determinging who has traction control / launch control. Parallel system with ABS

Checking various computer tunes and throttle by wire re-programing.

EFI - yes I know for a fact cars have had multiple tunes and switches in the car.

 

If you can't police it, then you can't include it? The idea of making AI so broad and open to allow so many options is a very difficult prospect. In order to have such a broad scope you either write a phone book for rules (all of which need to be enforced) or perhaps use a points type system, similiar to ST, or try to make it as managable as possible.

 

AN UNPLUGGED ABS MODULE WILL NOT PERFORM AS WELL AS A PROPERLY DESIGNED BRAKING SYSTEM (whether or not that system has ABS). Hopefully that will sink in one of these days and you will understand the arguement but for some reason I doubt it.

 

I'm just responding to statements made by guys who have the system. Last month statements were made that it would cost a lot money and time to remove it, and that it couldn't just be unplugged. Now with the rule adjustments the consensus is to unplug for dry and use for rain. Then you say that unpugging it makes for poor proportioning and poor braking. So, maybe you understand my problem of the facts sinking in.

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D Algozine
I will still stick with the abs being no real advantage in the dry for us in american iron but obviously everyone knows it works in the rain. I've talked with a few that have no problem giving it up for 9.1 over 9.5 . shows you what the really think about it in the dry doesn't it ?

 

Interesting. This doesn't explain why there was so much opposition to getting rid of it all together. If it's a simple bypass and it's of no real advantage in the dry, why would anyone care if it was just removed completely?

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stevepoe
Interesting. This doesn't explain why there was so much opposition to getting rid of it all together. If it's a simple bypass and it's of no real advantage in the dry, why would anyone care if it was just removed completely?

 

 

Hey , that was just my opinion. Everyone has a right to a opinion and many think that mine is wrong. yours is it needs to go.

 

I can tell you that in my opinion many are going to ditch it for the extra hp. That is if they don't jump ship over to st2 and use it with the hoosiers and just forget about american iron.

 

I'm still on the fence if I want to even screw with it as well. A lot rides on the toyo price and contingency of where I take my car for 2012.

 

Many regions are dead on American Iron Car counts from what I understand.least compared to what they used to be. I was also under the impression that the Great Lakes Region had by far the most cars per race then any other region . From what I seen The majority of the cars where s197cars as well. Time will tell if The Great lakes region dies out like other regions.

 

how many races you going to run this 2012 season Dave ?

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