Pact: no crying just racing once rules come out for 2012....

[Ed M.]

Well, the AI family is doing just fine here in the SE. Here is our car count/make for Rd Atl this coming weekend:

 

AI-13, GM=2, FORD=10, DODGE=1

CMC-12, GM=5, FORD=7

AIX-6, GM=3, FORD=3

 

Come on down - its gonna be a hoot!

 

Ed

[supermac]

Wow! that is awesome! I am stoked to be a part of it!

[D Algozine]

how many races you going to run this 2012 season Dave ?

 

Ideally, I hope to make most of the weekends, but in the end, finances will determine actual amount. Not sure about Nationals.

[D Algozine]

Well, the AI family is doing just fine here in the SE. Here is our car count/make for Rd Atl this coming weekend:

 

AI-13, GM=2, FORD=10, DODGE=1

CMC-12, GM=5, FORD=7

AIX-6, GM=3, FORD=3

 

Come on down - its gonna be a hoot!

 

Ed

 

 

We need some details and photos of the Dodge entry

[GSroadracer]

x2 would love to hear details/see pics of the Dodge- guessing it is a late model Challenger?

[svttim]

Interesting. This doesn't explain why there was so much opposition to getting rid of it all together. If it's a simple bypass and it's of no real advantage in the dry, why would anyone care if it was just removed completely?

 

 

Hey , that was just my opinion. Everyone has a right to a opinion and many think that mine is wrong. yours is it needs to go.

 

I can tell you that in my opinion many are going to ditch it for the extra hp. That is if they don't jump ship over to st2 and use it with the hoosiers and just forget about american iron.

 

I'm still on the fence if I want to even screw with it as well. A lot rides on the toyo price and contingency of where I take my car for 2012.

 

Many regions are dead on American Iron Car counts from what I understand.least compared to what they used to be. I was also under the impression that the Great Lakes Region had by far the most cars per race then any other region . From what I seen The majority of the cars where s197cars as well. Time will tell if The Great lakes region dies out like other regions.

 

how many races you going to run this 2012 season Dave ?

 

 

I for one will be moving to ST2. My reasons are not obvious. I dont think the rules that have come out are all that bad. I understand the horsepower difference between the 2 systems but, not sure the science behind the actual numbers. I understand the track with adjuistments for the fox body guys but, not the increase in the GM since it is already as wide as the SN197. The toyo thing is a bit of a downer but that alone would not have kept me out of AI. All of this together put me on the fence. What put me over was some of the attitudes. So, Ill move to ST2 and very well may get my A$$ handed to me but Ill have fun doing it

[CAR 54 WHERE ARE YOU]

Here is a link to my FB page it has photos of the challenger build. it's a heavyweight 3800 lbs

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1516225508

[GSroadracer]

Your Challenger is very cool. I love it.

 

It looks like it started as a body in white? Is Mopar selling those or do you have to have "connections"?

 

I hope you had some good finishes in 2011. Good luck in 2012.

[Adam Ginsberg]

I for one will be moving to ST2. My reasons are not obvious. I dont think the rules that have come out are all that bad. I understand the horsepower difference between the 2 systems but, not sure the science behind the actual numbers. I understand the track with adjuistments for the fox body guys but, not the increase in the GM since it is already as wide as the SN197. The toyo thing is a bit of a downer but that alone would not have kept me out of AI. All of this together put me on the fence. What put me over was some of the attitudes. So, Ill move to ST2 and very well may get my A$$ handed to me but Ill have fun doing it

 

If part of the "attitude" you are mentioning is in relation to the AI Forums.....IMO, you're making a big mistake. It's the internet - so easy for people to get twisted up over the smallest things.

 

Race the class you really want to race in. If that's ST2, so be it. If it's AI, then ignore all the forum bullshit, go out, and have fun.

[robbodleimages]

i raced with the challenger at road atlanta in the arrc last month. very interesting ride. fast car.

 

i am probably in st2 next season. i have a commitment with goodyear tires and thats really all thats about.

 

i am racing with the ai guys this weekend in AI trim but without a legal dyno sheet in aix. i counted 31 cars in tha ai/aix/cmc group. it will be fun. btw...nasa southeast has none of this rules stuff going on. maybe thats why its still fun there.

[blackbolt9]

Believe it or not.....I understand the need to include various new technologies. But the reality is that current resources already don't permit the proper policing of the current rules and systems. So, by embracing more of the new technology it's only going to be more difficult.

Examples:

Per the new rules - plugging and unplugging of ABS. Is every car going to be checked, every session?

Determinging who has traction control / launch control. Parallel system with ABS

Checking various computer tunes and throttle by wire re-programing.

EFI - yes I know for a fact cars have had multiple tunes and switches in the car.

 

If you can't police it, then you can't include it? The idea of making AI so broad and open to allow so many options is a very difficult prospect. In order to have such a broad scope you either write a phone book for rules (all of which need to be enforced) or perhaps use a points type system, similiar to ST, or try to make it as managable as possible.

 

Believe it or not, I do see where you are coming from, and we actually kind of agree to a point here.

 

I totally agree that allowing the new technology will require more policing. I just think that there needs to be some innovation in the policing techniques rather than not allowing the newer technology.

 

For the ABS plugged vs. unplugged. If someone knows (I don't) where to get tamper proof seals, they could be applied over a plugged in ABS unit or over the opening left from being unplugged so that it cannot be changed without notice. Same goes for the OBDII port. If someone decides to change tunes a NASA official would have to be brought over to the car to witness the ABS unit being plugged in (if it was previously unplugged) or unplugged (if it was previously plugged in). The ABS would have to then be resealed. When the ABS is changed the NASA official could then break the seal on the OBDII port, allow the retune, then reseal the OBDII port. Since there isn't a good way for the official to know which tune goes with which ABS setting, maybe there needs to be a rule added that only allows this to occur at events that either a dyno is present or they have the dataloggers to verify that the hp for the tune is correct (assuming the dataloggers are accurate enough for that verification). IMO to make it easier on the officials there should also be a rule stating that the OBDII port needs to be located in a reasonably accessable/visible place as well.

 

I'm just responding to statements made by guys who have the system. Last month statements were made that it would cost a lot money and time to remove it, and that it couldn't just be unplugged. Now with the rule adjustments the consensus is to unplug for dry and use for rain. Then you say that unpugging it makes for poor proportioning and poor braking. So, maybe you understand my problem of the facts sinking in.

 

I don't think there IS a consensus on unplugging it for dry and plugging it back in for rain. From what I've heard/been told, I do think dry weather performance is degraded when the ABS unit is unplugged because wheel lockup will occur earlier than a properly balanced non-ABS system, due to the poor biasing. This means thresh hold braking with the system unplugged would be worse and slow the car less than if you do away with the module completely and replumb the system with a prop valve that is adjusted properly. I have no data or testing to verify that though, it's just what I've been told by people who probably have seen the data/testing.

 

As for cost to make the change. I don't know the numbers on the hardware end of things, I just know it costs more to throw away things you already have in the car and replace them with things you have to buy. And contrary to what you've said before, ALOT of the S197's in AI started life as street cars not BIW.

[svttim]

I for one will be moving to ST2. My reasons are not obvious. I dont think the rules that have come out are all that bad. I understand the horsepower difference between the 2 systems but, not sure the science behind the actual numbers. I understand the track with adjuistments for the fox body guys but, not the increase in the GM since it is already as wide as the SN197. The toyo thing is a bit of a downer but that alone would not have kept me out of AI. All of this together put me on the fence. What put me over was some of the attitudes. So, Ill move to ST2 and very well may get my A$$ handed to me but Ill have fun doing it

 

If part of the "attitude" you are mentioning is in relation to the AI Forums.....IMO, you're making a big mistake. It's the internet - so easy for people to get twisted up over the smallest things.

 

Race the class you really want to race in. If that's ST2, so be it. If it's AI, then ignore all the forum bullshit, go out, and have fun.

 

 

Thanks Adam, I certainly will consider that

[snakebit]

I totally agree that allowing the new technology will require more policing. I just think that there needs to be some innovation in the policing techniques rather than not allowing the newer technology.

 

Take a que from the pro bass fisherman....polygraph. Doesn't have to be at every event, heck just the thought of a surprise test would be enough discouragement if the penalty was harsh enough.

 

John (AI 2012 375/3400)

[asifnyc]

Tim, instead of getting your a$$ handed to you in ST2, run AI and hand out the a$$ whoopin' to me and my Javelin...

[svttim]

Tim, instead of getting your a$$ handed to you in ST2, run AI and hand out the a$$ whoopin' to me and my Javelin...

 

 

That Javelin is going to be gorgeous, I cant wait to see it completed

[Tommy55]

As for cost to make the change. I don't know the numbers on the hardware end of things, I just know it costs more to throw away things you already have in the car and replace them with things you have to buy. And contrary to what you've said before, ALOT of the S197's in AI started life as street cars not BIW.

 

Welcome to racing. I think my 95 Firebird was a street car too. Along with most of us, I don't know of too many street cars in AI. Most are race cars

[D Algozine]

As for cost to make the change. I don't know the numbers on the hardware end of things, I just know it costs more to throw away things you already have in the car and replace them with things you have to buy. And contrary to what you've said before, ALOT of the S197's in AI started life as street cars not BIW.

 

Welcome to racing. I think my 95 Firebird was a street car too. Along with most of us, I don't know of too many street cars in AI. Most are race cars

 

Interesting comments. Everyone other then the S197 cars had to "throw away" a huge pile of parts just to be competitive, so you're not going to get too much sympathy.

And contrary to what you've said before, ALOT of the S197's in AI started life as street cars not BIW

Regardless of how any car started it's life, if it is transformed into an AI race car, it was stripped to the shell and built back up.

[blackbolt9]

Welcome to racing. I think my 95 Firebird was a street car too. Along with most of us, I don't know of too many street cars in AI. Most are race cars

 

Thanks for the insight. Wasn't clear on that until now

 

Interesting comments. Everyone other then the S197 cars had to "throw away" a huge pile of parts just to be competitive, so you're not going to get too much sympathy.

And contrary to what you've said before, ALOT of the S197's in AI started life as street cars not BIW

Regardless of how any car started it's life, if it is transformed into an AI race car, it was stripped to the shell and built back up.

 

I'm not looking for sympathy. Hell, I wouldn't even be building an S197 if I had the money to finish building my car. I'm simply making the point that your argument that, most of the cars starting from a BIW means they don't have an ABS system installed in the first place, is simply wrong. A majority of the S197s do start as street cars and do start with ABS installed. Throwing away stock parts to replace them with better parts to make the car go faster makes sense. Throwing away perfectly good stock parts that don't need to be improved is stupid. If that's how you like to spend your money go right ahead though.

[marshallmosty]

If it's cheaper to build a car from a BIW and find a donor for the stock parts you want to keep... fine.

If it's cheaper to strip a GT down and "throw away" a bunch of stuff... fine.

If it's cheaper to find a V6 to strip and then find a donor for the stock parts you want to keep... fine.

 

Regardless of what you start with we ALL end up with AI cars that cost somewhere beteen $15,000 and $150,000.

 

The difference in the amount you spend on your car typically depends on where the comma is in your annual income...

 

 

 

Let's stop bitching and build cars. Some will have nicer, newer, more expensive... Who cares. We "should" all be able to build the "same" car from different platforms, years, part bins, home brew stuff, etc...

 

Run FR ABS... fine

Run non-FR ABS... fine

Run no ABS... fine

 

 

Just go RACING!!! You all can't tell me your cars are 100% ready to go already for 2012? I just got done spending a quality 8 hours with mine before getting in this pressurized tube we call an airplane...