RacinmySi Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Does anyone run a early model Porsche cup car in GTS4 at the limit with ballast or restrictor? I just bought a car that came from a 150lb driver and I am wayyy more then that and since the car is an early year Cup, it doesn't have the same power as the 997 Cup or even the late 996 Cup cars. It could carry ballast and be at the GTS4 limit (with slicks) or easily make the DOT 8.5. Wondering if anyone has done it and success you have had versus getting clobbered in GTS5 way underpowered against the big dog cup cars?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKRBMW Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 I've heard of people running them. No reason why you can't do a restrictor. Typically Cups dyno around 350 or so for an early car (I read yours is a 2000) - I think it'd be hard for you to get to 3100 pounds on slicks (careful with DOTs as rears begin to melt after a few hard laps). If you can bring it down to 320ish that should do it. Cups are what, about 2550 dry? So if you're 225 and fuel, cool suit, maybe 2900 so thats 322 at the rear on slicks, or 341 on DOTs. Not sure if you got a dyno with your car, but that's going to be the biggest factor. If you hit around 350 or less I think you're golden. If you come in 360 or higher just makes it harder. Oh, and make sure you hit weight all the time since I'll be running against you and you better believe we're getting weighed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RacinmySi Posted November 23, 2011 Author Share Posted November 23, 2011 I've heard of people running them. No reason why you can't do a restrictor. Typically Cups dyno around 350 or so for an early car (I read yours is a 2000) - I think it'd be hard for you to get to 3100 pounds on slicks (careful with DOTs as rears begin to melt after a few hard laps). If you can bring it down to 320ish that should do it. Cups are what, about 2550 dry? So if you're 225 and fuel, cool suit, maybe 2900 so thats 322 at the rear on slicks, or 341 on DOTs. Not sure if you got a dyno with your car, but that's going to be the biggest factor. If you hit around 350 or less I think you're golden. If you come in 360 or higher just makes it harder. Oh, and make sure you hit weight all the time since I'll be running against you and you better believe we're getting weighed I wishes I wish my car made 350 at the wheels I wish I only weighed 2225 with my gear I wish the car weighed 2550 dry 200 Cup cars usually dyno 325-345 with no updates (no 2004 updates for instance). I don't have a problem racing fair, I have been racing in scca for 14 years and never once not been weighed . The car does come with a dyno sheet that is old and I am going to re-dyno it here after I pick it up this weekend. I know it is right on the cusp of GTS4 if it isn't freshened hence my ask. Even the old dyno sheet is toward the bottom of that scale I listed above, can't imagine it has gotten better with more hours on it. Hope I get to race you with this car or my Audi S4 twin-turbo that makes gobs more power but a lot heavier. Where are you located? And thanks for replying. I am a classic case of good deal I couldn't pass up and now trying to figure out where I am going to race it (NASA, PCA or SCCA) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKRBMW Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Sounds like you should be right there than! That's good, our GTS4 field is really growing. I just got a GTS4 car myself, although it's a BMW. And just sold my GT3, which was very fun. I'm in Charlotte and primarily run SE schedule. Looking forward to meeting you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrgordonsenior Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 The early cups I've seen sheets on (and I keep them for POC) are all right around 325-330. So 330 x 9 =2970 which is about 200lbs. heavier than what a early cup with a 180lb. driver would weigh. It's certainly doable at 2970 if properly set up and corner balanced. The 2nd place GTS4 Nationals car this year was a 996 putting out similar WHP numbers though he ran R6's.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RacinmySi Posted November 24, 2011 Author Share Posted November 24, 2011 The early cups I've seen sheets on (and I keep them for POC) are all right around 325-330. So 330 x 9 =2970 which is about 200lbs. heavier than what a early cup with a 180lb. driver would weigh. It's certainly doable at 2970 if properly set up and corner balanced. The 2nd place GTS4 Nationals car this year was a 996 putting out similar WHP numbers though he ran R6's.... Geez typing on iPad stinks. Im sure you figured out my bad typing, I don't weigh 225lbs with gear and 2000 Cup car. My car is inline with what you have seen on the PCA ones. I weigh around 240 (plus gear). Haven't confirmed myself yet, but car is around 2600 give or take. So 2600+ 240 = 2840 + I dunno 10-15 lbs of gear + chasecam couple pounds (5) would be 2860 or so. Using your 2970 at 330 as example I would need 110lbs. Of ballast (again give or take with some fuel left). So whether to run ballast or a small restrictor will be the question with brakes and tire wear in mind. Thanks for your insight. NASA and GTS look like a good option the more I consider. SCCA I would have to run in GT2 and all cup cars there are the newer models that are +30-40 (or more) horses. The GT2 SCCA track record at Road Atlanta was just lowered to a 129.1 last month And for the guy from Charlotte, are you coming to the Toy Run? We are running the Audi in the 8 hour Friday. I am seriously considering running the new car if I can get it to the dyno and get some ballast or restrictor installed in time (will be a scramble given the short week before the endurance race). Hope to meet you in any event sometime in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKRBMW Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 I would trust Mr Gordon as he's been around P cars longer than I've been driving. Won't make it to Toy run unfortunately. I plan on trying to run the season next year, so will be at CMP and RA in spring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra4B Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Off topic, but Alex did you ever post up about the car you got? /Hijack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKRBMW Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 Not yet - trying to get it home first. Probably next week (I hope). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KTL Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Ask cstreit here. He runs a 2001 GT3 in GTS4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cstreit911 Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 I responded to your PM, but thought I'd post here for archival sake as well. My 2001 Cup made 333 RWHP unrestricted and 325 with a 71mm diameter intake restrictor. That requires the car to weigh 2830 and 2790 with DOT's. That's certainly doable in an early Cup. My car with steel fenders and hood weighed 2790 empty with me in it, but always came off the track at 2850 with fuel and extras, so I took off the restrictor. I had HEARD that earlier cars with updates were averaging 350 RWHP but don't have direct evidence to support that. My car has 6 hours on the engine. It definitely eats rear DOT's (but no faster than my early car ate slicks) and I'm still making major decisions on alignment and setup. The tires seem to be telling me some things that are counter-intuitive regarding camber and alignment settings. I'd share those with you BUT you're in GTS4, so I'm not gonna. The car is definitely competetive with a basic setup and I'm hoping that as I learn more it should be better. Cups certainly do better on faster tracks than slower ones. (This car is 600# heaver than my old car and I feel it!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RacinmySi Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 I responded to your PM, but thought I'd post here for archival sake as well. My 2001 Cup made 333 RWHP unrestricted and 325 with a 71mm diameter intake restrictor. That requires the car to weigh 2830 and 2790 with DOT's. That's certainly doable in an early Cup. My car with steel fenders and hood weighed 2790 empty with me in it, but always came off the track at 2850 with fuel and extras, so I took off the restrictor. I had HEARD that earlier cars with updates were averaging 350 RWHP but don't have direct evidence to support that. My car has 6 hours on the engine. It definitely eats rear DOT's (but no faster than my early car ate slicks) and I'm still making major decisions on alignment and setup. The tires seem to be telling me some things that are counter-intuitive regarding camber and alignment settings. I'd share those with you BUT you're in GTS4, so I'm not gonna. The car is definitely competetive with a basic setup and I'm hoping that as I learn more it should be better. Cups certainly do better on faster tracks than slower ones. (This car is 600# heaver than my old car and I feel it!) As mentioned in my IM response, my early car doesn't have the updates to get near the 350, I am near the bottom of the scale posted on page 1 of this thread from the guy that holds the PCA GTC3 sheets I think I'm going to give GTS4 a go for this coming weekend if I can get the weight right and if I can get the car to the dyno tomorrow after work. Going to be pressing it to make it in time to get the car loaded up and to a dyno but think if I can get out of work early enough I am going to give it a shot. Hope to see some of you this weekend! Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
911.racer Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Tim, Good for you. You should come up north and run with me and Chris sometime too. (still on the hunt, but plan on having the car by the end of Jan anyway) I would not be concerned about restricting. Probably the best thing. I have not seen sheets on the cup cars, but keeping the torque and the Hp about the same is where you want to be and restricting the top end is the best way to do that. Heck, these are even e-throttle cars, so you could have a tune that would limit WOT to control the restriction. btw, probably not going for that car in CA with the fuel cell unless the one I am looking at now falls through and that one is still available. Thanks Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cstreit911 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Ed, My cup has a cable throttle and a TPS. You wouldn't want to limit travel (Which was my initial thought when restricting) because the engine management changes significantly when the computer senses W.O.T. I built a restrictor plate out of aluminum (not paper, *cough*Sean T*cough* ) and accomplished the same thing. An 80mm opening gave me a 1%HP reduction, 71mm a 2.7% reduction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrgordonsenior Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 I think I'm going to give GTS4 a go for this coming weekend if I can get the weight right and if I can get the car to the dyno tomorrow after work. Going to be pressing it to make it in time to get the car loaded up and to a dyno but think if I can get out of work early enough I am going to give it a shot. Hope to see some of you this weekend!Tim Tim did you make it out this past weekend? If so how did the car feel restricted and what were the before/after dyno results. Thx.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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