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Cobra4B

Decision on 255s... single out one tire? Why?

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Cobra4B

Why not redo the rules so the tires are all assessed points based on width vs. what the number on the side says? Also, the 255 is a different animal than the 275. Yes it's close to the same width, but the sidewall is 0.3" shorter which makes a big difference in getting the tire to work. They are not the same tire. The car is faster on 275s, but 255s allow modification points to tweak the car to makeup for the difference.

 

I really don't understand why the decision was made to single out one tire when it's open for everyone to use.

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yakisoba

Because that tire is an aberration. It was great while it lasted. I can say, as a user of that tire, how good it is. It was very, very good, once I learned how to manage it. Turn in is different, pressure is different, falloff is different, and more. But it's fast. Fast, fast, fast.

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Varkwso

I blame the TTB National Champ since it cannot be the car, cannot be the setup and cannot be the driver so it must be the tire.

 

Never having run them all I can say is they are fast when set up correctly and driven well. Now we will see how the 245s do...

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Trevor57

Isn't it explained in the update?

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yakisoba

Vark, that was my next question: Are there other tires in the Hoosier catalog that are similarly aberrant? If so, then we just moved the problem, and didn't solve it.

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Cobra4B

But just because the tire is close in width doesn't account for the fact that it's super low profile. It's not the same tire and treating it the same as a 275/35 doesn't make sense.

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D_Eclipse9916
Why not redo the rules so the tires are all assessed points based on width vs. what the number on the side says? Also, the 255 is a different animal than the 275. Yes it's close to the same width, but the sidewall is 0.3" shorter which makes a big difference in getting the tire to work. They are not the same tire. The car is faster on 275s, but 255s allow modification points to tweak the car to makeup for the difference.

 

I really don't understand why the decision was made to single out one tire when it's open for everyone to use.

 

Brian, while I agree that banning one tire is an interesting concept, and it definitely messes with all those PTA/TTA Vettes, and I actually was considering going to that tire myself......

 

I like that they banned this tire out of principal. If we allow companies to create a tire that wide at a 255 label, then it only encourages other companies, and Hoosier itself to do it more. Ive been hearing little rumors of a 255/40/17 thats actually as wide as a 275, with again, a very short sidewall to make it 24.8" overall diameter. If we show that we will just ban those tires, they are much less likely to do it. (that is if they actually did it for that purpose).

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Cobra4B
Vark, that was my next question: Are there other tires in the Hoosier catalog that are similarly aberrant? If so, then we just moved the problem, and didn't solve it.

Yep... 245/40/18s... look to be almost as wide and have more sidewall than the 255/35s. Plus being a 245 you get the .8 hp/weight break vs. the .4 for the 275s. We'll start setting records on those, then people will complain and they'll move the rules again.

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D_Eclipse9916
Vark, that was my next question: Are there other tires in the Hoosier catalog that are similarly aberrant? If so, then we just moved the problem, and didn't solve it.

Yep... 245/40/18s... look to be almost as wide and have more sidewall than the 255/35s. Plus being a 245 you get the .8 hp/weight break vs. the .4 for the 275s. We'll start setting records on those, then people will complain and they'll move the rules again.

 

Which brings us back to a point : ban corvettes

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yakisoba

Actually, the first response in the thread had a note about using real tread width, rather than 'labeled' width. I think that's a fine idea. And mitts off my plastic car, buddy. Ban, schman.

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TurboShortBus

I used the 255/35-18 Hoosier tire for my own car, specifically because it was a "cheater" tire. We all know that Hoosiers (and most other brands of track tires) are wider than their street counterparts, but this one particular Hoosier size was significantly wider than any other 255mm Hoosier tire, making it a "cheater cheater."

 

As a racer, I'm pissed that these tires are now seen as 275mm wide (although I knew damn well what I was doing when I bought them). But, as an official, I support it.

 

Here is the tire width comparison chart that I prepared for Greg while the rule change was being discussed (based on various tires that I have stockpiled here). I have it in .pdf format if you can't read the information here.

 

l.jpg

 

A while back, I suggested to Greg that the actual, as-measured tire width (not numbers from a website) be used to calculate points, although I realize that this will be a royal pain for regions that have limited abilities to perform detailed tech inspections (like mine). It is far easier to just read the number on the sidewall, rather than check everybody's tires with a large set of calipers.

 

Mark

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ILIKETODRIVE
Actually, the first response in the thread had a note about using real tread width, rather than 'labeled' width. I think that's a fine idea.

 

x2

 

I know from mounting/balancing enough 225/45-15 NT-01s and 205/50-15 Hoosiers that they are REALLY close in actual width.

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Cobra4B

What about if I mount a tire on a 10.5" wheel vs 9"... the tire will be effectively different on the wider wheel. What about other brands of tires that are wider? What about Hoosier 285 that's wider than the 295 (but super low profile like the 255)?

 

What's annoying is now I have to take parts off of my car or spend more money on more sets of wheels and more time experimenting with a completely new setup vs. spending that money attending events and possibly going to Nationals.

 

Optimized my car to a rule-set and then the rules got changed.

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drivinhardz06
Actually, the first response in the thread had a note about using real tread width, rather than 'labeled' width. I think that's a fine idea. And mitts off my plastic car, buddy. Ban, schman.

 

problem is the section width (and to some degree the tread width) varies based on what width wheel you run it on. and the shape of the shoulder changes greatly based on width, and the shape of the shoulder is big deal and affects the car a lot when you load it up.

 

The 285 is wider than the 295

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Cobra4B

My overall beef is that the 255 is now treated as effectively the same as the 275 when in reality it's not; the 275 is the faster tire. The 255 allows you modification points to deal with the quirks of the 255 that allow it to barely edge out the 275.

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Trevor57
What about if I mount a tire on a 10.5" wheel vs 9"... the tire will be effectively different on the wider wheel. What about other brands of tires that are wider? What about Hoosier 285 that's wider than the 295 (but super low profile like the 255)?

 

What's annoying is now I have to take parts off of my car or spend more money on more sets of wheels and more time experimenting with a completely new setup vs. spending that money attending events and possibly going to Nationals.

 

Optimized my car to a rule-set and then the rules got changed.

 

 

Hi, I am car racing. Have we met?

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UKRBMW

Interesting, however pretty understandable. I know it's rough if you are a Corvette driver, but this pretty much mainly hurts the Z06 in PTA/TTA. Everybody else starts out in TTB just about, so their benefit is not quite as big.

 

Sorry for all my Vette friends around here. Although I'm pretty sure Mark, Scott, Jeff, et al will figure something out new and faster over the winter!

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Varkwso
.....A while back, I suggested to Greg that the actual, as-measured tire width (not numbers from a website) be used to calculate points, although I realize that this will be a royal pain for regions that have limited abilities to perform detailed tech inspections (like mine). It is far easier to just read the number on the sidewall, rather than check everybody's tires with a large set of calipers.

 

Mark

 

A really, really bad idea. I have 50+ cars on the grid this weekend with probably a 100 different tire/wheel combos. Tire size and type enforcement is pretty easy (but still a lot of enforcement) and it is enough of a PITA. I still get guys with slicks. Lets stick to things that can be enforced by people who can read.

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TurboShortBus
A really, really bad idea. I have 50+ cars on the grid this weekend with probably a 100 different tire/wheel combos. Tire size and type enforcement is pretty easy (but still a lot of enforcement) and it is enough of a PITA. I still get guys with slicks. Lets stick to things that can be enforced by people who can read.

I readily admit that the way to make it more "fair" is a huge pain in the huevos for you and me.

 

Mark

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UKRBMW
.....A while back, I suggested to Greg that the actual, as-measured tire width (not numbers from a website) be used to calculate points, although I realize that this will be a royal pain for regions that have limited abilities to perform detailed tech inspections (like mine). It is far easier to just read the number on the sidewall, rather than check everybody's tires with a large set of calipers.

 

Mark

 

A really, really bad idea. I have 50+ cars on the grid this weekend with probably a 100 different tire/wheel combos. Tire size and type enforcement is pretty easy (but still a lot of enforcement) and it is enough of a PITA. I still get guys with slicks. Lets stick to things that can be enforced by people who can read.

 

Sorry for actually making you work buddy

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Varkwso
Interesting, however pretty understandable. I know it's rough if you are a Corvette driver, but this pretty much mainly hurts the Z06 in PTA/TTA. Everybody else starts out in TTB just about, so their benefit is not quite as big.

 

Sorry for all my Vette friends around here. Although I'm pretty sure Mark, Scott, Jeff, et al will figure something out new and faster over the winter!

 

 

No impact to my setup - I will wait till the smart guys figure out the fast setup and steal it. If this rule was imposed for one tire, on one car type, in one class it is more vendetta then equality. But anyone could have tested and run the combo on several chassis and groups.

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Varkwso
.....A while back, I suggested to Greg that the actual, as-measured tire width (not numbers from a website) be used to calculate points, although I realize that this will be a royal pain for regions that have limited abilities to perform detailed tech inspections (like mine). It is far easier to just read the number on the sidewall, rather than check everybody's tires with a large set of calipers.

 

Mark

 

A really, really bad idea. I have 50+ cars on the grid this weekend with probably a 100 different tire/wheel combos. Tire size and type enforcement is pretty easy (but still a lot of enforcement) and it is enough of a PITA. I still get guys with slicks. Lets stick to things that can be enforced by people who can read.

 

Sorry for actually making you work buddy

 

 

Just stamp DQ on all your stuff - will save me the time...

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kbrew8991

I recall seeing this tire on several Texas region TTA and TTB cars, good mix of Corvettes, Evos, M3s, etc. So I would definitely not call it a "Corvette Killing" rule...

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UKRBMW

You're absolutely right, many, including myself used 255. What I said is that it impacts Z06 in PTA/TTA more than just about any other car. If you start out in TTB and run 255s you only gain 1 point which in most cases won't make a huge difference.

 

Jeff - way ahead of you, I'm just not even coming down to RA and maybe you'll forget about this by February

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TurboShortBus

Or, if you start in TTE, a 255 tire costs +4 points while a 275mm tire costs +10, for an increase (2011 vs 2012) of +6.

 

But hey, they are still legal as regular 255s for the remainder of 2011! Who needs some for Road Atlanta this weekend? I have 6 new ones here that need to go, as I wouldn't be able to use them in 2012 even without the rules change.

 

Mark

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