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Cobra4B

Decision on 255s... single out one tire? Why?

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sperkins
I'm not talking crap about Hoosier.

Hey Joel - wasn't refering to you (or really anyone in particular for that matter). I'd just hate it if someone at Hoosier were to read this thread and get the wrong impression.

History has shown that tire rule changes typically don't affect lap times all that much. Heck, as they take tire width away and add more points for compound, we've all gotten faster.

Can you imagine what TTA would be like today if we still had the '09 tire rules?

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kbrew8991

or '06-'07ish tire rules where the points where based off your stock size vs being stipulated by your base class

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Vettedoctor
or '06-'07ish tire rules where the points where based off your stock size vs being stipulated by your base class

 

That would be nice I wouldn't have to think so damn hard!

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Varkwso
or '06-'07ish tire rules where the points where based off your stock size vs being stipulated by your base class

 

Those were the good old days! But the program really came alive as the word spread. It exploded when Hoosier came on board.

 

The rule set , and enforcement, has migrated also. I remember competing against TTA Vipers many years ago.

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brkntrxn

I am certain you guys posted it in here somewhere, but I have been out of pocket for the past week. The tire chart should be based on treadwidth, not what is stamped on the side of the tire. That is the only way to make it fair.

 

My heavy foot will not allow me to run 245s, I'll go up to ST2/TTS before I run something that skinny on my Z06. Or I'll go buy a Miata and build a fat tired monster.

 

If this type of rule change is a hint to the future (i.e., case by case basis, specific to a particular part/tire/etc), I see the rule book getting thicker and thicker. Which will do nothing but drive people away from the lower cost classes. A simple set of rules is what attracted me to NASA, I hate to see that go away.

 

 

 

-Kevin

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Cobra4B
I am certain you guys posted it in here somewhere, but I have been out of pocket for the past week. The tire chart should be based on treadwidth, not what is stamped on the side of the tire. That is the only way to make it fair.

 

My heavy foot will not allow me to run 245s, I'll go up to ST2/TTS before I run something that skinny on my Z06. Or I'll go buy a Miata and build a fat tired monster.

 

If this type of rule change is a hint to the future (i.e., case by case basis, specific to a particular part/tire/etc), I see the rule book getting thicker and thicker. Which will do nothing but drive people away from the lower cost classes. A simple set of rules is what attracted me to NASA, I hate to see that go away.

 

 

 

-Kevin

Bring your COTM wing to RA this weekend... I'd like to see it (and maybe steal it)

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sperkins
My heavy foot will not allow me to run 245s, I'll go up to ST2/TTS before I run something that skinny on my Z06. Or I'll go buy a Miata and build a fat tired monster.

Your current setup seems to work pretty well.

 

If this type of rule change is a hint to the future (i.e., case by case basis, specific to a particular part/tire/etc), I see the rule book getting thicker and thicker. Which will do nothing but drive people away from the lower cost classes. A simple set of rules is what attracted me to NASA, I hate to see that go away.

Exactly.

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Joshua

I got curious about the relative differences in tread width (as measured by Hoosier) from tires with the same width as listed on the sidewall.

 

232323232%7Ffp635%3A%3A%3Enu%3D856%3A%3E2%3A9%3E25%3A%3EWSNRCG%3D347%3B%3B5%3B44234%3Bnu0mrj

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l30thelion
I got curious about the relative differences in tread width (as measured by Hoosier) from tires with the same width as listed on the sidewall.

 

232323232%7Ffp635%3A%3A%3Enu%3D856%3A%3E2%3A9%3E25%3A%3EWSNRCG%3D347%3B%3B5%3B44234%3Bnu0mrj

Nice, a pic is worth 1k words.....would be cool to see similar charts for 225 vs 245 and 285 vs 295 .

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Joshua

Your wish is my command - for one of your wishes. I do not have more 18 or any 19" tires in my spreadsheet. If I have time later, I'll add the data.

 

232323232%7Ffp6355%3A%3Enu%3D856%3A%3E2%3A9%3E25%3A%3EWSNRCG%3D347%3B%3B9383234%3Bnu0mrj

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UKRBMW

Man - get away for a few days and this thread is already 11 pages.

 

Come on folks, let's get over it! Burn up your 255s this weekend at RA and lets see what you do for next year!

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Cobra4B
Man - get away for a few days and this thread is already 11 pages.

 

Come on folks, let's get over it! Burn up your 255s this weekend at RA and lets see what you do for next year!

Buy me some 18x9.5" wheel that will clear my Wilwoods up front and I'll gladly run some 245s and more power

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UKRBMW

Didn't you just sell a bunch of these???

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Bnjmn

they would not clear his Wilwoods.

Brian - find a smaller brake setup (ex-NASCAR) and run the 16" cheater 225s.

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Varkwso

WWSD?

 

 

What would Smokey do?

 

He would do what has been done in most every class. Build to the max allowed. If he got beat I doubt he would blame a competitors tire (and whine) and when the rules changed he would build a better car to win again

Rule changes often increase cost and they always cause consternation with someone. Maybe even 12 pages of someone's.

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Joshua
WWSD?

What would Smokey do?

Excellent!

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Cobra4B

Whining distracts others while you plan/work/execute

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L98Terror
I got curious about the relative differences in tread width (as measured by Hoosier) from tires with the same width as listed on the sidewall.

 

232323232%7Ffp635%3A%3A%3Enu%3D856%3A%3E2%3A9%3E25%3A%3EWSNRCG%3D347%3B%3B5%3B44234%3Bnu0mrj

Nice, a pic is worth 1k words.....would be cool to see similar charts for 225 vs 245 and 285 vs 295 .

 

There ya go, seems like that tire needed to go

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seank

Maybe we should do a chart for EVERY tire manufactured to make it fair.

 

I run 15" tires (so it doesn't affect me) and I think this is rediculous and opening a large can of worms!

 

What's next?

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Joshua

I've already done that with a wide range of Hoosiers, and the 255/35/18 stands out. Other Hoosier tires that are not on the three charts are also more consistent with their sidewall listing. When this anomalously wide tire was identified, the rules were adjusted to keep things more fair.

 

I suggest that you do such a comparison for another group of tires and report back here so that we can all benefit from your insights.

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Varkwso
I've already done that with a wide range of Hoosiers, and the 255/35/18 stands out. Other Hoosier tires that are not on the three charts are also more consistent with their sidewall listing. When this anomalously wide tire was identified, the rules were adjusted to keep things more fair.

 

I suggest that you do such a comparison for another group of tires and report back here so that we can all benefit from your insights.

 

Fair implies only a select few could use this tire. Not pertinent to this case.

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TurboShortBus
Fair implies only a select few could use this tire. Not pertinent to this case.

Correct; they were used on various types of vehicles from TTD to TTA.

 

Mark

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Joshua

I agree that more than "a select few" can use the 255/35/18 tire. However, even if it applies to a majority of cases, that still creates an inequity for some. Since some competitors cannot fit 18" wheels to their vehicles, this creates an inequity.

 

There are two points here. 1. Since points are assessed to tires based on the width molded into the sidewall, and wider tires "cost" more points, the general concept is that wider tires can give a performance advantage. 2. The 255/35/18" tire is anomalously wide compared to other tires by the same manufacturer with the same width molded in the sidewall.

 

In my opinion, tires should generally conform to their width molded in the sidewall. I documented the anomalously wider tread width of a tire labeled 255, but that had a width equivalent to a 275 tire. If all competitors could use that tire, then it is fair since everyone can take advantage of the anomaly. However, this is not the case.

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TurboShortBus
Since some competitors cannot fit 18" wheels to their vehicles...

Then they just aren't being creative enough.

 

Mark

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sperkins
Then they just aren't being creative enough.

 

Mark

Agreed. If the rules said that superchargers were free, I guarantee you'd find a way to make one fit.

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