Help With Front Brake Selection

[bulletpruf]

Fellas -

 

Could use some input on front brakes for my 71 Javelin. It's built with AI in mind, but intend for it to be street legal as well. It has a 500 flywheel hp 401, T10, full floater 9". Race weight should be about 3,350. Rear brakes are Wilwood 4 piston FSL, .810 x 11.75" rotors, 1 3/8" pistons. Running 275/40/17 tires on 17 x 9 wheels.

 

Problem with the front brakes is the lack of aftermarket support. Wilwood offers a kit with 11" rotors, but methinks that's too small of a rotor up front. There is one guy who does a kit for the fronts using Wilwood 4 piston FSL calipers, 1.25" x 12.19" rotors, 1.75" pistons. It's $1,900 for the complete kit. Is this enough brake for the front on a 3,350 pound car?

 

My other options are using pieces/parts from the Wilwood 11" kit to put 13" rotors on the front (that's as big as I can go with 17" wheels, right?). Other folks have used Aerospace brakes, but I think they are more of a pro-touring brake than a serious race brake, but could be wrong here.

 

Thanks in advance for any info.

 

Scott

[SNAKBITN]

PM sent

[Jay A.]

Scott,

You need the biggest heaviest brakes you can get. 13" 332mm minimum x 1-1/4" 32mm thick. Lots of AI guys using 14" 355mm because of fluid boiling problems. most 14" requires a 18" wheel.

Look for the following:

Caliper-Very rigid, forged. if it costs $150 it is junk. Good Calipers are in the $500-$600 range. Great ones are $1200. Many calipers are disposable after a season. good ones are rebuildable and will last many years.

Rotor-Two piece, Full floating. not the kind that rigidly bolt to the hat. Heavy with lots of directional veins for optimal cooling, slotted are best for racing.

I am a StopTech dealer and these brakes fit all of these requirements. StopTech is the only brand I sell because they are the best. They have many new products out and are now selling individual parts for custom application. They are now casting and machining their AeroRotors in the USA in California. I caught up to them last weekend and learnded a lot at PRI.

see video here:

Long video but good info.

The hard part is making the bracket. If you need help with this please let me know.

Build the best system you can and forget about your brakes so you can focus on racing.

 

Thanks

Jay Andrew

[bulletpruf]

Scott,

You need the biggest heaviest brakes you can get. 13" 332mm minimum x 1-1/4" 32mm thick. Lots of AI guys using 14" 355mm because of fluid boiling problems. most 14" requires a 18" wheel.

Look for the following:

Caliper-Very rigid, forged. if it costs $150 it is junk. Good Calipers are in the $500-$600 range. Great ones are $1200. Many calipers are disposable after a season. good ones are rebuildable and will last many years.

Rotor-Two piece, Full floating. not the kind that rigidly bolt to the hat. Heavy with lots of directional veins for optimal cooling, slotted are best for racing.

I am a StopTech dealer and these brakes fit all of these requirements. StopTech is the only brand I sell because they are the best. They have many new products out and are now selling individual parts for custom application. They are now casting and machining their AeroRotors in the USA in California. I caught up to them last weekend and learnded a lot at PRI.

see video here:

Long video but good info.

The hard part is making the bracket. If you need help with this please let me know.

Build the best system you can and forget about your brakes so you can focus on racing.

 

Thanks

Jay Andrew

 

Jay -

 

I thought AI was limited to a 13" rotor? Maybe you're referring to AIX?

 

You've got a lot more experience than I do here, but I do have a hard time believing that all $150 calipers are junk. Lots of folks are quite happy with the Wilwood FSL calipers; these are $150/each.

 

I'd like to build the best system that I can, but I don't have the luxury of an unlimited budget. I realize that getting on the track with marginal brakes can also be very expensive (i.e., medical bills, planting the car into a barrier), but I'm looking for some middle ground here - excellent brakes with a reasonable price.

 

Thanks for the input.

 

Scott

[bulletpruf]

See below for Ken McIntire's custom kit with Wilwood FSL calipers and 12.19" x 1.25" rotors. It's not super cheap at $1900, but it would cost a fair bit more for him to do a kit for 13" rotors. He said he'd have mount the larger rotors differently.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[rpoz27]

Ebay is your friend....Matt just put NEW 14" alcons on the front and 13" rears on his car for $1500....and those fronts are under 17" wheels too! Granted those deals aren't out there every day but shop around.

 

Also, those wilwoods on the rear will generate a bunch of pad knockback if your axles have ANY side to side play or flex at the rotor. We chased that problem for over a year thinking it was the crappy front hubs on my camaro....turned out to be the rears moving around. trashed the wilwoods and went back to stock LS1 stuff...problem solved.

 

Baer and coleman can build you just about any rotor you want. Get a good 2pc. rotor and build a bracket to mount the caliper to match it. I just so happen to have a used set of SL6's off the camaro for sale if you are interested and have 2 or 3 new sets of DTC 60's to go with them. They are taking up space on our workbench and need to go. includes 12.88" rotors, hats and new braided lines along with a rebuild kit for caliper seals. offers north of $500+ shipping will be taken. Need them gone so I can order the Panther Pink paint for the car!

[Jay A.]

Scott,

feel free to contact me directly. all my info is listed below.

 

AI rules 7.8.1 Brake rotor friction surfaces must be iron with a maximum diameter of 14".

 

I am not talking about an unlimited budget but probably in the $2100-$2500 range.

 

One of the major challenges with brakes is pad taper. once the pad tapers the pedal becomes softer, because the piston is no longer square in the bore. weak calipers twist from the torque causing uneven pad wear. Also good quality calipers will have a slightly larger piston on the trailing edge to provide additional clamping force to keep the pads wearing even. The leading edge of the pad creates gasses and dust that forces the trailing edge of the pad away from the rotor. A larger piston on the trailing edge helps compensate for this phenomenon.

 

In general any caliper flex translates directly to the brake pedal. the more rigid the caliper and brake system the more firm the pedal and the more confidence a driver has in his brakes.

 

The floating rotor helps with all of this too. the floating rotor will find its own center minimizing any piston knock back or uneven transfer layer. A floating rotor will last much longer because it can grow and shrink with temperature change on its own with out restriction from the hat.

 

Jay

[drivinhardz06]

FSL is a very good solid/stiff caliper for the $$, that said, for a really heavy car with lots of hp, it's probably better suited on the rear rather than front

[bulletpruf]

Ebay is your friend....Matt just put NEW 14" alcons on the front and 13" rears on his car for $1500....and those fronts are under 17" wheels too! Granted those deals aren't out there every day but shop around.

 

Also, those wilwoods on the rear will generate a bunch of pad knockback if your axles have ANY side to side play or flex at the rotor. We chased that problem for over a year thinking it was the crappy front hubs on my camaro....turned out to be the rears moving around. trashed the wilwoods and went back to stock LS1 stuff...problem solved.

 

Baer and coleman can build you just about any rotor you want. Get a good 2pc. rotor and build a bracket to mount the caliper to match it. I just so happen to have a used set of SL6's off the camaro for sale if you are interested and have 2 or 3 new sets of DTC 60's to go with them. They are taking up space on our workbench and need to go. includes 12.88" rotors, hats and new braided lines along with a rebuild kit for caliper seals. offers north of $500+ shipping will be taken. Need them gone so I can order the Panther Pink paint for the car!

 

Would be nice if I could fit a 14" rotor inside a 17" wheel.

 

Thanks for the tips on pad knockback.

 

I'll get in touch with you about your brake setup.

 

Thanks,

 

Scott

[bulletpruf]

Scott,

feel free to contact me directly. all my info is listed below.

 

AI rules 7.8.1 Brake rotor friction surfaces must be iron with a maximum diameter of 14".

 

I am not talking about an unlimited budget but probably in the $2100-$2500 range.

 

One of the major challenges with brakes is pad taper. once the pad tapers the pedal becomes softer, because the piston is no longer square in the bore. weak calipers twist from the torque causing uneven pad wear. Also good quality calipers will have a slightly larger piston on the trailing edge to provide additional clamping force to keep the pads wearing even. The leading edge of the pad creates gasses and dust that forces the trailing edge of the pad away from the rotor. A larger piston on the trailing edge helps compensate for this phenomenon.

 

In general any caliper flex translates directly to the brake pedal. the more rigid the caliper and brake system the more firm the pedal and the more confidence a driver has in his brakes.

 

The floating rotor helps with all of this too. the floating rotor will find its own center minimizing any piston knock back or uneven transfer layer. A floating rotor will last much longer because it can grow and shrink with temperature change on its own with out restriction from the hat.

 

Jay

 

Jay -

 

Thanks for the tips on caliper flex, floating rotors, and taper. Very helpful.

 

Scott

[bulletpruf]

Are C5/C6 brakes suitable for a car like mine? Have someone who is interested in creating a kit for them. Rotors are 325mm; about 12.8" or so. Not sure how thick the rotors are. Would be easy to find parts for, but I just don't know if these hold up for road race use.

 

Any experience here? These would be much more affordable than the other options; maybe about $1,300 for the complete kit.

 

Thanks

 

Scott

[Spruill242]

I would go with the C6 stuff. They have better strengthening ribs than the C5 stuff. That being said; race pads are going to be 200$ plus... The Wilwood or Stoptech or any true racing caliper, tend to use a very generic pad design that keeps pads costs down... I'd rather spend a bit more money up front and less along the way than vise-versa....

[Pantera1889]

I have the 13" Stop Tech setup on the front of mine with Cobra rotors and C4 'Vette rear calipers. Works great but the replacement parts are EXPEN$IVE !! Alot of guys have good luck with the 2000 Cobra R Brembo fronts . They are MUCH cheaper to maintain as well.

 

Ron

[marshallmosty]

I have the 13" Stop Tech setup on the front of mine with Cobra rotors and C4 'Vette rear calipers. Works great but the replacement parts are EXPEN$IVE !! Alot of guys have good luck with the 2000 Cobra R Brembo fronts . They are MUCH cheaper to maintain as well.

 

Ron

 

Ron,

Are you talking about the ring replacement cost on the StopTechs? I've had over 3 years on my StopTech rings (13") and they are in no need of replacement. However, I've heard of the Cobra rotor guys getting 3 days before cracking rotors. $40 rotors will only last 18 race days (9 events, or 1 1/2 seasons) before you are at the same replacement cost for StopTechs... so, yes, they are more expensive for inital buy in and "when" you need to replace a ring. However, if you save a few shillings each event, they will end up being cheaper. YMMV.