PushinTheLimit Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Since the frame rails on my C5Z are bent and I'm taking it to a local frame shop soon to have it all straightened out... it was suggested to me to possibly cut off the "ears" so to say on my front and rear frame rails. This would be the extra frame section outside of the main impact bar front/rear. But after reading this rule in the ST rules section, I'm not sure if its legal to do that or not... "ST1 and ST2 only (not applicable for STR1 and STR2): Every vehicle must retain its OEM frame rails (or unibody), strut towers, floorpan, and subframe. Tube-frame chassis conversion (partial or complete) is not permitted without a waiver from the National ST Director." Comments? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperkins Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 It's legal. You are maintaing the OEM frame rails. The "ears" are weld on bumper reinforcements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PushinTheLimit Posted December 31, 2011 Author Share Posted December 31, 2011 Thanks... got the answer I needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGZOSTD Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Although I think your ok, I would suggest you clear any frame rail or structure modification with Greg before cutting anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PushinTheLimit Posted January 1, 2012 Author Share Posted January 1, 2012 Greg, could you possibly give some clarification on this? I think a few of us are wanting to know if this would be ok. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 I'd email him direct if you need a quicker response Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted January 3, 2012 National Staff Share Posted January 3, 2012 THIWWOP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperkins Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 He is refering to the extensions used to support the OEM impact absorbers behind the bumper covers. They get smashed in with the slightest contact. More specific info about the OP's car here: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/autocrossing-and-roadracing/2966474-project-st2-rebuild.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PushinTheLimit Posted January 3, 2012 Author Share Posted January 3, 2012 This is how dumb I am.... I had to lookup what THIWWOP meant Thanks Scott, I meant to do this yesterday but got tied up with something else. If you need more pics Greg, I can provide them if needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra4B Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 My sawzall patiently awaits Greg's response Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted January 5, 2012 National Staff Share Posted January 5, 2012 Ok guys, we have reviewed this potential modification as shown in the photos with just the ends trimmed off of the bumper supports crossing at the front and rear of the frame rails, and we believe that this would be a legal modification in ST (and TTS/TTU). The trimming should not go past where the "actual" frame rails end. Also, we have had a bunch of questions about Corvette frame mods the past few days, and FYI, it is not permitted to cut holes in the frame rails to use as brake ducting, exhaust routing, etc. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PushinTheLimit Posted January 5, 2012 Author Share Posted January 5, 2012 Thank you Greg for your prompt response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra4B Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Greg would the be OK in PTA as weight reduction or would it be a "points" mod? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted January 5, 2012 National Staff Share Posted January 5, 2012 It would fall under weight reduction. But don't you guys think that it provides you at least some additional crash protection, or are you planning on fabbing additional bumper supports in it's place? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperkins Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I'm leaving mine. One of them took a pretty hard hit from a fellow competitor during the championship race. Without it, I would be buying a rear bumper cover and a LR quarter panel at minimum (and probably tub repair). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra4B Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 ^ Yeah I've come to my senses and am going to leave well enough alone... same reason I'm leaving the foam impact absorbers in too. They keep a minor crash from becoming more serious and multiple racers have said the impact absorbers really do make a difference in a crash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperkins Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 multiple racers have said the impact absorbers really do make a difference in a crash. I need a new rear one if you know of any on the cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra4B Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I don't off-hand. I'd try the normal parts recyclers or see if any racers have removed theirs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weed Wacker Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Ok guys, we have reviewed this potential modification as shown in the photos with just the ends trimmed off of the bumper supports crossing at the front and rear of the frame rails, and we believe that this would be a legal modification in ST (and TTS/TTU). The trimming should not go past where the "actual" frame rails end. Also, we have had a bunch of questions about Corvette frame mods the past few days, and FYI, it is not permitted to cut holes in the frame rails to use as brake ducting, exhaust routing, etc. Thanks. So the mods below for brake ducting would be illegal for ST then? What about STR? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted January 7, 2012 National Staff Share Posted January 7, 2012 They would be legal in STR. We are taking another look at this issue, though, for ST. It is currently not legal in ST under the rules requiring retention of the OEM frame rails. They are not retained as OEM if they are cut and modified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PushinTheLimit Posted February 15, 2012 Author Share Posted February 15, 2012 Just wanted to bump this up to the top as there is some concern on what the ruling may be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clubracer6 Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Ditto, when can we expect an update on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawdogg Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 They would be legal in STR. We are taking another look at this issue, though, for ST. It is currently not legal in ST under the rules requiring retention of the OEM frame rails. They are not retained as OEM if they are cut and modified. Running in TTU I don't have a dog in this discussion, but I would ask what was the intent of the rule requiring oem frame rails. If it was to avoid their replacement with a non-oem rails or tubes then modifying the oem rail for exhaust, brake cooling, etc. would not run afoul of the intent of the rule. One could also make a case that modifications to a rail do not make it non-oem. It is still the original equipment manufactured rail with modifications. For example, I consider a front bumper to still be a retained oem bumper even though a new hole is in it for a tow hook. If no modification to the rail was the intent, then the rule could say "unmodified oem rails". If nothing else, the rule is vague and open to several interpretations including the one Greg is using. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varkwso Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 They would be legal in STR. We are taking another look at this issue, though, for ST. It is currently not legal in ST under the rules requiring retention of the OEM frame rails. They are not retained as OEM if they are cut and modified. Running in TTU I don't have a dog in this discussion, but I would ask what was the intent of the rule requiring oem frame rails. If it was to avoid their replacement with a non-oem rails or tubes then modifying the oem rail for exhaust, brake cooling, etc. would not run afoul of the intent of the rule. One could also make a case that modifications to a rail do not make it non-oem. It is still the original equipment manufactured rail with modifications. For example, I consider a front bumper to still be a retained oem bumper even though a new hole is in it for a tow hook. If no modification to the rail was the intent, then the rule could say "unmodified oem rails". If nothing else, the rule is vague and open to several interpretations including the one Greg is using. OEM framerails and floorpans apply to TTU and below. STR1 crosses over to TTU with 8.7 ratio limitation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawdogg Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 They would be legal in STR. We are taking another look at this issue, though, for ST. It is currently not legal in ST under the rules requiring retention of the OEM frame rails. They are not retained as OEM if they are cut and modified. Running in TTU I don't have a dog in this discussion, but I would ask what was the intent of the rule requiring oem frame rails. If it was to avoid their replacement with a non-oem rails or tubes then modifying the oem rail for exhaust, brake cooling, etc. would not run afoul of the intent of the rule. One could also make a case that modifications to a rail do not make it non-oem. It is still the original equipment manufactured rail with modifications. For example, I consider a front bumper to still be a retained oem bumper even though a new hole is in it for a tow hook. If no modification to the rail was the intent, then the rule could say "unmodified oem rails". If nothing else, the rule is vague and open to several interpretations including the one Greg is using. OEM framerails and floorpans apply to TTU and below. STR1 crosses over to TTU with 8.7 ratio limitation. Not a problem for me personally since my frame is not modified. It seems that a reasonable oem frame rail rule interpretation could allow modifications for things like exhaust and brake cooling holes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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