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Bnjmn

Has 2012 Nats AWD dyno been reserved yet? & TT rules nit

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jason

Buy 10 more GPS units and do away with dyno testing for everyone. Think of the money you'll save.

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gbrown8439
Buy 10 more GPS units and do away with dyno testing for everyone. Think of the money you'll save.

 

Hey now!!

 

Lets not do anything too crazy.

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Bnjmn
Buy 10 more GPS units and do away with dyno testing for everyone. Think of the money you'll save.

 

+1, but release the program/procedure so competitors can ensure they are compliant before a NASA test.

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Varkwso
Buy 10 more GPS units and do away with dyno testing for everyone. Think of the money you'll save.

 

Hey now!!

 

Lets not do anything too crazy.

 

Conflict of.interest here.

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clydesdale

I'd love to hear more about GPS testing-- given the Traqmate data I have it's not entirely clear how it would ever work effectively as an absolute measure of performance without a substantial number of input variables. I imagine GPS might have caught a 4-off, but that hardly ever happens in a championship winning session.

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Balroks
Just ban them..n/a or the highway!

It has seriously been considered. As well, we have considered making any AWD car with FI run in TTR/SU, or just any AWD car run in TTR/SU. But then, who would the TTA 350Z's run against in Florida?

 

Nah you don't want to do that, Joe would be Winnar by default and claim 12 tires per event for himself Based on results/lap times alone we're getting enough punishment with the -.5 Vs the Spec Vette's that handle just as well or better for half the $. There's about 6 of us now that run ST2 with mixed results, with more on the way. Once you mod past a certain point it becomes cost prohibitive so that's why you wont' see any in ST1 or U anymore. Besides, AWD-T is way more fun to drive Be interesting to see the results this year in TT with the national "spec 255" tire banned.

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sperkins
There's about 6 of us now that run ST2, with more on the way.

It certainly appears to be an enticing platform.

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obzezzed350
Just ban them..n/a or the highway!

It has seriously been considered. As well, we have considered making any AWD car with FI run in TTR/SU, or just any AWD car run in TTR/SU. But then, who would the TTA 350Z's run against in Florida?

 

Nah you don't want to do that, Joe would be Winnar by default and claim 12 tires per event for himself Based on results/lap times alone we're getting enough punishment with the -.5 Vs the Spec Vette's that handle just as well or better for half the $. There's about 6 of us now that run ST2 with mixed results, with more on the way. Once you mod past a certain point it becomes cost prohibitive so that's why you wont' see any in ST1 or U anymore. Besides, AWD-T is way more fun to drive Be interesting to see the results this year in TT with the national "spec 255" tire banned.

 

AWD-T is great, if your races are under 25 minutes

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jason

AWD-T?

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Bnjmn

awd-turbo.

No love for the impreza rs.

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Balroks

The 2 door Impreza RS would be a blast to drive, cheap too if it didn't have an STI swap.

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speedengineer

In my opinion, the presence of an AWD dyno (or any dyno really) isn't enough to prove that all drivers are compliant. If someone out there with a turbo car (or any car really) is low enough to want to cheat, I'm sure they could devise some clever way to change their peak boost, redline, etc before they hit the dyno. Same goes for when they know that they have a traqmate put on their car. The only way to truly ensure compliance would be to have a traqmate installed in a car for every session. I'm not sure how feasible that is...

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Bnjmn

Right, but the point was simply to seek equal application of the rules/try to get an understanding of the thought process. Same basic idea as my posts in the 255 thread (which, btw, I am thrilled with as I bought a wedding band instead of Penskes, which I think is a better use of the $).

 

Anyway...hoping we move towards on-track testing instead of dyno as the testing seems to be reliable. Just hoping for some transparency, which is why I would like the ability to self-test.

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Cobra4B

I wish my wedding was an equal trade for a set of Penskes!

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Varkwso
I wish my wedding was an equal trade for a set of Penskes!

 

Penskes can be rebuilt when the piston gets loose.

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jvetthead
I wish my wedding was an equal trade for a set of Penskes!

 

Penskes can be rebuilt when the piston gets loose.

 

/rimshot/

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jason
I wish my wedding was an equal trade for a set of Penskes!

 

Penskes can be rebuilt when the piston gets loose.

I 'bout lost my coffee.

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Cobra4B
I wish my wedding was an equal trade for a set of Penskes!

 

Penskes can be rebuilt when the piston gets loose.

I 'bout lost my coffee.

I spit up a little chicken biscuit

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ScottBell

While we are on this subject, I have a thought. Back in the 80's when turbo cars were running in Showroom Stock, SCCA tech would put a boost gauge on the car to measure peak boost. Simple solution to me seems requiring the turbo cars to declare a peak boost with there dyno sheets and monitor. Way harder to game that boost gauge than a dyno or gps. Why wouldn't this work?

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Bnjmn

not enough due to switchable tuning maps that can allow a variety of HP output for a given boost level. Not so much a problem in the 80s (F1 cars used to swap in new tunes via replacing the VCR-sized ECUs).

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kbrew8991

They're doing the boost monitoring thing in Continental Tire. IIRC some teams are having issues with "boost spikes" and such triggering an "overage" - when the turbo comes on full song it overshoots the limit it's set for for a tiny portion of a second and then dropping right down to the level it was set at. You'd need a way to account for small spikes like that I feel.

 

Isn't it really easy to make more or less power via boost than it is to hold boost steady and switch fuel/timing tunes?

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Bnjmn

Limited boost is the obvious way to limit HP, my point was that it is merely a hurdle as to is pretty easy to be able to meet a given HP limit at a certain boost amount by limiting timing, and easy to exceed the limit by adding back timing (and similarly, by playing w/fuel maps).

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ScottBell
Limited boost is the obvious way to limit HP, my point was that it is merely a hurdle as to is pretty easy to be able to meet a given HP limit at a certain boost amount by limiting timing, and easy to exceed the limit by adding back timing (and similarly, by playing w/fuel maps).

 

Its also really easy to, say, have your boost gauge plumbed into the wastegate. Then the hose accidentally falls off the boost gauge in the car while on track. I don't know enough about the current crop of whiz bang ecu's, but it there a way to ban multiple maps? I think anyone that cries about loosing multiple map capability can only have one reason for doing so.

 

They're doing the boost monitoring thing in Continental Tire. IIRC some teams are having issues with "boost spikes" and such triggering an "overage" - when the turbo comes on full song it overshoots the limit it's set for for a tiny portion of a second and then dropping right down to the level it was set at. You'd need a way to account for small spikes like that I feel.

 

IMO, their problem, run a better wastegate setup.

 

I say lets just put a GPS in every car, pay for it with a "compliance" fee that you get refunded if you have your own Traqmate.

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kbrew8991
run a better wastegate setup.

so force them into points mod C13.... not really fair

 

I know for CTSCC they don't let you change many parts depending on which model exactly.

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Vinny
Limited boost is the obvious way to limit HP, my point was that it is merely a hurdle as to is pretty easy to be able to meet a given HP limit at a certain boost amount by limiting timing, and easy to exceed the limit by adding back timing (and similarly, by playing w/fuel maps).

 

 

Bingo..lot more goes into making power then a boost number.

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