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Has 2012 Nats AWD dyno been reserved yet? & TT rules nit


Bnjmn
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Why not the best lap for each day and total them, then you could add in factors since it is a national championship, be the best if a day rains, dry, cold or damp. might not happen but the winner would be the champion in all elements.

JMC

 

That is called a season championship.

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I've said this many times at Nationals it should be the average of mulitiple laps, for example the best three laps of the day over 4 days. So once you get tested you will need to repeat to win. Also it forces car to run in less than ideal weather just like the racers do.

 

Yeah that's not really the point of TT. If you want to be more like the racers do, then go race.

 

Fast drivers must be consistent enough to nail pretty much ALL the corners on a single lap, what's the point in making them do it over several sessions? Are you arguing that doing so would mean it would make it tougher for people to cheat? I think not, if they did it for one lap, they could do it for four, what's the difference. It's not really proving anything.

 

I kind of like the idea of "winning days", not because of really anything but the fun aspect. You win one day you get real excited, you have another chance tomorrow etc etc. That said, in the "rules" aspect, I totally understand where your getting at.

 

I guess it "might" make it harder to cheat because you get inspected closely everyday. Instead of just doing one flyer. May not matter, I got my whole points sheet/car gone over 3 seperate times, dynoed, and weighed 7 times.

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Are you arguing that doing so would mean it would make it tougher for people to cheat? I think not, if they did it for one lap, they could do it for four, what's the difference. It's not really proving anything.

 

It would be a way to police the one lap wonders a little better, if someone cranks a fast lap out on Thursday or Friday before the officials have decided who they are going to keep an eye on it would force them to do it again. This would make it much harder to put up a fast time without having the GPS in your car.

Remember this is the National Championship not just another event, a good driver should be consistent. It would be different from any other TT event but it would give officials more of a chance to monitor cars that come out of no where.

 

That kind of format also requires you to be dedicated to TT, as opposed to one of the race cars coming down running one session and never running again.

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That kind of format also requires you to be dedicated to TT, as opposed to one of the race cars coming down running one session and never running again.

So? We'll still beat 'em anyway and I think most would prefer their entries to boost car counts for contingency stuff

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I wasn't even talking about the dyno issue, etc. If regionals require x amount of track days, why be called the national champion for one lap over 4 days, make it 1 lap per day so you the champion of the week

JMC

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make it 1 lap per day so you the champion of the week

JMC

That's a great idea. Then everyone will have to bring 4 sets of stickers and a set of wets to the event. Heck, it's only 6 grand right?.

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make it 1 lap per day so you the champion of the week

JMC

That's a great idea. Then everyone will have to bring 4 sets of stickers and a set of wets to the event. Heck, it's only 6 grand right?.

Dude... I was watching the Rolex race yesterday and they made mention of the fact that one of the GT teams only had one set of fresh tires left so they'd have to be midful of that. Then they said the GT teams get 30 sets of tires and the DP teams 32!!! If I remember correctly a set of slicks like that is $2000. So they burn through $60,000 in tires alone in just that one race

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Do they race on the same crap (R6) as the Continental series cars? $2k is a fortune for that performance! Elsewhere it was mentioned that the DP tires stink, would be funny if they were on R6s too...prob keeps the Porsche teams happy.

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Do they race on the same crap (R6) as the Continental series cars? $2k is a fortune for that performance! Elsewhere it was mentioned that the DP tires stink, would be funny if they were on R6s too...prob keeps the Porsche teams happy.

I thought they were R100s made with smooth sidewalls so they could paint Continental on them?

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Dude... I was watching the Rolex race yesterday and they made mention of the fact that one of the GT teams only had one set of fresh tires left so they'd have to be midful of that. Then they said the GT teams get 30 sets of tires and the DP teams 32!!! If I remember correctly a set of slicks like that is $2000. So they burn through $60,000 in tires alone in just that one race

They don't HAVE to use all 30 sets; that's just the maximum. When I worked with Magnus in 2010 as 1 of 2 tire guys, we still had a set of rains and (IIRC) 4 sets of slicks left at the end of the race. We used scrubs a few times in practice and two of the drivers would double-stint the tires in the race (Stanton and Bleekemolen; Lietz and Potter got fresh tires each stop). However, with the new smaller fuel tank rule for 2012 teams went through tires quicker in the same amount of time due to more stops.

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Are you arguing that doing so would mean it would make it tougher for people to cheat? I think not, if they did it for one lap, they could do it for four, what's the difference. It's not really proving anything.

 

It would be a way to police the one lap wonders a little better, if someone cranks a fast lap out on Thursday or Friday before the officials have decided who they are going to keep an eye on it would force them to do it again. This would make it much harder to put up a fast time without having the GPS in your car.

Remember this is the National Championship not just another event, a good driver should be consistent. It would be different from any other TT event but it would give officials more of a chance to monitor cars that come out of no where.

 

That kind of format also requires you to be dedicated to TT, as opposed to one of the race cars coming down running one session and never running again.

 

 

Honestly whatever the rule I'll be there, but it would make it more meaningful.

 

Keep in mind in 07 I went out on my 2nd lap of our first hot session and laid down the winning time in TTA. It was a large field of like 10 cars a few of which had beat me many times. I was over a second faster then the second place car and almost 2 seconds faster than I have ever run at Mid Ohio before (being my third time there and the first time I've ever run stickers, but nobody knew that). At that point I went back to my pit dismounted my good tires, bolted on scrubs and started to drink beer. I waited. Took a few laps here and there but nobody even approached my time. I could have hung out at a strip club all week and just showed up for the podium. How would you have felt if you were one of those competitors? I never needed to go back on track and never would have been tech ed.

 

Now rumblings came from the other pits and word got back to me that people thought something was up and were spreading the one lap wonder rumor. I got talked into putting my good tires back on and letting her rip, needless to say I was able to back up those time and improve by over a half second & at that point got weighted & dynoed. But that wasn't till the 2nd to last session of the last day.

 

My suggestion is something that would just make it a little harder for someone to make one single fast lap and go home without ever being checked out. Keep in mind the rules don't require you to do more than one session, you could have 200 extra hp for session #1 and then park the car. Nobody would ever get the chance to put a GPS on the car.

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This is going to be hard to police, as it's just as easy to cheat at the end of an event as it is at the beginning, if you try to require a repeat, they will (weather pending) wait until the last possible moment to set that lap, then what?

 

Maybe a time should have to be validated with at least one other lap within a certain percentile in another session (like 99.9%). So a 1:30 lap at Mid Ohio would have to be followed up with a 1:30.2 or so to be validated as a championship winning time. For the 1:30.2 to count it would need to be followed up by a 1:30.4. This would give officials at least a chance to check up on the fast times. This would at least go towards helping prevent phantom laps.

 

And any time within .5 of a lap record or clear of the rest of the field by let's say .8 seconds should result in an immediate impound.

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Maybe a time should have to be validated with at least one other lap within a certain percentile in another session (like 99.9%). So a 1:30 lap at Mid Ohio would have to be followed up with a 1:30.2 or so to be validated as a championship winning time. For the 1:30.2 to count it would need to be followed up by a 1:30.4. This would give officials at least a chance to check up on the fast times. This would at least go towards helping prevent phantom laps.

 

A track can vary from day to day, and morning/afternoon on a bigger margin than that.

 

I see no problem with the current format, fastest time wins. When you look at how few of sessions we get (2-day this past year) 4 days there isn't THAT many more sessions than you get in a 2 day regional TT weekend.

 

Anybody that was fast was impounded and weighed, I don't think there were any one hit wonders that I saw. I thought the whole thing was run pretty well.

 

I would say that an AWD dyno is needed to complete being fair to everybody, I know if I had an AWD car and had to haul it off 1 hr away I'd be ticked, especially if I was running in another class (w2w, etc). There is no reason those guys should have to be dragged off somewhere to get checked, that's punishing them for something they had nothing to do with. Just have a dyno to check every car competing, simple as that.

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How about a 2% error allowance on the dyno if there is such an allowance for GPS?

What does Dyno Jet specify as the dyno's margin of error?

 

I don't know why the awd guys are not pushing hard for an awd dyno. Who wants to take hours out of a busy week to get their car dyno'd?

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