AI Series or Camaro/Mustang Challenge

[Timebandit]

Hello,

 

I am new to the group. I wanted to introduce myself. I live around Buffalo, NY and own a 2004 Mustang Mach 1. I have been around the autocross scene for a couple years and going to a track day events the last 2 years.

 

I am planning on taking the next step in a year or two and race in the AI or Camaro/Mustang Challenge series. I am starting to prep the car and replace parts that need replacing anyways.

 

I am not sure what series/class to start off with. It seems that the Camaro/Mustang series is the beginning level and requires the car to be pretty stock (not including the safety requirements). The AI series seems to allow more modifications.

 

If I am replacing some of the stock components of the car anyways (rotors, etc.), I would like to upgrade them.

 

Is the driving level of the AI series much stronger than the Camaro/Mustang series? I am trying to decide what series to set the car up for.

 

Thanks - any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

Speak to you soon,

TimeBandit

[Micks 41]

First, welcome. The racers in the G/L region are a fantastic group no matter which series you choose.

 

Second, you are going to read many passionate arguments on which series to run, but the bottom line will be, how much are you willing to spend to be competitive. Money can be substituted with ingenuity and resourcefulness, but this involves both time and talent for which most of us don't have one or the other. Only you can decide what category you fall into and that will likely dictate which series fits you the best.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Guest

[Timebandit]

Thanks for replying. It probably makes more sense for me to start at the CMC series. Since I am new and trying to get some experience, this sounds like a good place to start. Cost is always a concern. I do most of the work on the car myself, but time is also difficult to get. That being said, CMS it is.

 

I have always wanted to do this. The main goal is to improve my driving skills and have fun.

 

Thanks for the feedback, I was curious what other people have thought.

 

Thanks,

[Trevor57]

a competitive cmc car can be built for a few thousand dollars. I have no idea what it costs to build a front running AI car.

[wstukas]

a competitive cmc car can be built for a few thousand dollars. I have no idea what it costs to build a front running AI car.

 

If you're starting with a s197, I don't think it's that $$$. They are darn good out of the box.

[SNAKBITN]

As far as the driving level,there are great drivers in both series.Some from the CMC cars run ahead of the AI cars and it's not because of the hp

 

Robert

[kbrew8991]

generally less mods = less cost to buy, operate, and run up front. Gotta have that nut behind the steering wheel tight no matter what though.

[robbodleimages]

if the OP is talking about racing the Mach 1, is that model CMC legal? its got too much hp stock doesnt it?

 

i just got the impression that he was asking about racing his current car

[Timebandit]

Hey guys,

 

Thanks for getting back to me. My main goal is to improve my driving skills and have fun. Cost is always something to keep in mind. It looks like the CMC series is the best option to start with. I am going to work on setting up the car this year and hopefully join you guys next year.

 

I have always wanted to do this and I am excited about it.

 

I may reach out to you guys if I have any questions while I am setting up the car. I read the rules document, but may have questions down the road.

 

Speak to you soon.

Timebandit

[stevepoe]

a competitive cmc car can be built for a few thousand dollars. I have no idea what it costs to build a front running AI car.

 

now that is funny. you obviously haven't looked at the front running cars in cmc.

[D Algozine]

I would not make any major changes at this time. Get the car in shape for more HPDE and go to as many NASA events as possbile. Talk to racers in both groups. Look at there cars, ask a million questions about modifications and costs. It will take some time to get your Comp license, because you will have to work up the ladder in HPDE 1-4. If you feel the need to start working on the car, I would put a CMC legal cage and other standard safety items, but don't mess with performance components until you know exactly which direction you want to go. All CMC cages are AI legal, but an AI legal cage, built to the edge of rules may not be legal in CMC. Get familiar with all of the rules in both classes. ASK the racers and series directors in your region a lot of questions.

 

Good luck

[jdlingle]

I would keep that car as my DE toy and think about buying a prepped CMC car for pennies on the dollar of what the builder paid to build it. Shoot, with a Mach 1 you could probably sell it and buy another stang and a CMC car!

 

Edit: My mistake on the Mach 1. I knew the hood was illegal but I thought the engine was as well. The rest of my advice still remains the same though.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Guest

[robbodleimages]

are competitive cmc cars really cheap?

[Sidney]

are competitive cmc cars really cheap?

 

Less than $10,000 if you don't have to have an S197.

 

Sidney

[Micks 41]

are competitive cmc cars really cheap?

A good driver can make an inexpensive car very fast. A bad driver can make a expensive car very slow.

[edhunter]

Good AI cars can be had for around 15K right now. Tal Isbell has a penske equipped AI SN95 he's got listed for 15K (Atlanta), Steve Kent has a fox body with new engine/etc. in the MidAtlantic region for around the same price too. Unless you like building then it's cheaper to buy a ready2race car...

[Adam Ginsberg]

The Mach 1 is not CMC legal so you would only be able to go AI with that particular car.

 

That isn't true. The only non-CMC legal items on an SN99 Mach 1 is the shaker hood scoop, and the lower chin spoiler. The engine is 100% legal (4.6L DOHC, same as the Cobra), brakes (13"F/11.65"R, same as the Cobra), suspension, etc.

 

Selling the shaker, hood (since it goes with the shaker) and chin spoiler will net a decent chunk of change that can be used to help finance the build. If the decision is to race AI, ALL the Mach 1 stuff is 100% legal, as is.

 

A few suggestions that have already been made are excellent:

 

• Run in HPDE, and work on your mAdD driving sKilzz, y0.
  
• As you're running in HPDE, start getting the car ready for competition - removing unneeded/unwanted interior items, some modest class legal upgrades (better springs/shocks, brakes), etc
  
• Put a cage and race seat in the car. If you build the cage to CMC specs, it's 100% AI legal. If you decide to make the jump to AI, you can add bars to suit your needs
  
• Walk the paddock of every event you attend, talk to the drivers, check out the cars, ask lots of questions.
  
• Earn your comp license
  
• Go racing!

[UBR]

A bad driver can make a expensive car very slow.

HEY! Don't talk about us while were logged in here.

 

j

[bluebandit48]

Well.. There are quite a few things that i would like to say.. but ill hold back.

 

Just start with HPDE, Once you have your license, get door to door racing experience in CMC where if you break it, it dosn't hurt as bad.

Then if you feel like spending endless amounts of money trying to beat brand new body in white purpose built race cars, move to AI!!!

 

 

 

THEN!!!

 

Become broke, go back to racing CMC and have fun!

 

[Timebandit]

Hey Guys,

 

Thanks for the response. I think that the best thing is to sign up for a couple HPDE events this year and also check out the a couple of your events. I think that the northeast section goes to Watkins Glen.

 

I never put the car on a dyno. I plan to do this in the spring to see where I am and go from there.

 

Speak to you soon,

Timebandit

[AJ Hartman]

I race AI in the Northeast and wouldn't really recommend CMC from a competition stand point. I think one CMC car made an appearance all last season at one event. AI on the other hand has been showing good growth. One of the most fun races I had last season was racing for 4th against a guy in a Mach 1. He dyno'd at 350 and was on hoosiers. I only dyno'd at 252 and was on old toyos with a 250lb advantage, but ended up beating him by .060 of a second. Point being, I would rather race in a class with several cars then be the only one in class, just driving around the track. Just something to think about.

[Burnett]

Come to the races in the great lakes region and introduce yourself. You will learn a lot just hanging around. It is always cheaper to buy than build but building is fun too.

 

I run AI but have helped a friend get involved in CMC. I helped him find his first CMC junker (became 2010 champ). Helped him build his next car (became 2011 champ). It really depends on what you want to do. You can always find help, no problem.

 

See you at the track

Don't forget the beer

Robin Burnett

[Red Tornado]

Keep in mind you can always go from CMC to AI in the same car with mods when you wish.

 

Agree with Robin. Go to an event or two and you will likely have a gut feeling of what you want then.

 

Competition is great in each but one costs more for more speed.

[Al Watson]

Welcome Timebandit, I'm a bit late to this party but if you need any help or info let me know. CMC is a good place to start, yeh there is only 1 semiregular CMC guy in the NE region but there is one or two others who are considering it as well, and there is 6 or 8 of us regular AI folks. Running some HPDEs to get into it is def good. I would suggest printing both the CMC and AI rule books, build your car to CMC but leave the door open for AI. This way when you start to race you can run CMC or you can run AI depending on who shows and how competitive you are. AI in the NE isnt that crazy yet so a decent CMC car could do well in AI.