D_Eclipse9916 Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Does anyone know any other sports car with no factory front camber adjustment or is my car just poorly designed? E36 M3, E46 M3, most other BMWs Thanks! I am surprised by that to be honest. Why would they do something like that on a "sports" car? More economical? How do the BMW guys get adjustable camber up front then? I have to use offset bushings (free mod), but they are not enough depending on ride height, so I have to use a 4 point a-arm to gain enough camber. Front camber plates, for the rear we have to take the rear A-Arm point mod to get the right camber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99MPower Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Does anyone know any other sports car with no factory front camber adjustment or is my car just poorly designed? E36 M3, E46 M3, most other BMWs Thanks! I am surprised by that to be honest. Why would they do something like that on a "sports" car? More economical? How do the BMW guys get adjustable camber up front then? I have to use offset bushings (free mod), but they are not enough depending on ride height, so I have to use a 4 point a-arm to gain enough camber. as mentioned... camber plates up front.. the rear, depending on ride height, can get you the camber using the stock eccentric bolt. If u want crazy camber, you need aftermarket lower camber arms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loudes13 Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 What about these new BFG's? The tire war has begun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brkntrxn Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 It's June. Do we have a decision? Or will the announcement be in our goody bags at Nationals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra4B Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 It's June. Do we have a decision? Or will the announcement be in our goody bags at Nationals? Seriously... at a real cross-roads with the car. The sooner we know the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted June 6, 2012 Author National Staff Share Posted June 6, 2012 Our goal has always been by the end of June. Again, this is for 2013. The new BFG's were listed in a Technical Bulletin on 5-25-12 pending further review. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brkntrxn Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Thanks for the update, Greg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra4B Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 TTT... end of June is end of this week. Any chance we'll hear anything official in the next few days? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperkins Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 TTT... end of June is end of this week. Any chance we'll hear anything official in the next few days? Does it really even matter anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra4B Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 TTT... end of June is end of this week. Any chance we'll hear anything official in the next few days? Does it really even matter anymore. Yes... no change and I keep my car TTA/PTA legal but slap on bigger tires for ST2 racing. +20 A6s mean I'm done messing with PTA/TTA and doing ST2/TTS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra4B Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Any ETA on this ruling? Sorry to be pushy, but I have some Hoosier coupons to cash in here before the July race weekend. I'm not going to Nationals so if the rules change I'm going to go ahead and order bigger tires. Thanks, Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboShortBus Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Any ETA on this ruling? Sorry to be pushy, but I have some Hoosier coupons to cash in here before the July race weekend. I'm not going to Nationals so if the rules change I'm going to go ahead and order bigger tires. Thanks, Brian Are you really getting 6+ months out of your Hoosiers? Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra4B Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Any ETA on this ruling? Sorry to be pushy, but I have some Hoosier coupons to cash in here before the July race weekend. I'm not going to Nationals so if the rules change I'm going to go ahead and order bigger tires. Thanks, Brian Are you really getting 6+ months out of your Hoosiers? Mark I'm not sure I follow? This season I'll be running 7 NASA weekends: Feb - VIR Mar - VIR June - RA Jul - VIR Oct - VIR Nov - SP Dec - RA I put sticker 245s on to run TT in Feb and Mar and raced on them at RA weekend before last. They're worn out for any competitive use now. If A6s go to +20 I'm done with PTA/TTA and going to get 275s from here on out to run TTS/ST2. I'd also install the aero I've had sitting in my garage and change the suspension a bit. If the tire points didn't change I'd leave the car as-is and keep it legal for TTA, but get a set of 275s to race ST2. Racing PTA on 245s isn't much fun. Furthermore, nobody races PTA in MA. I'm running TTA/instructing in July and need to order 245s. However, if the rules change I'd go ahead and order 275s instead as I plan on racing ST2 in October. Clear as mud? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 After running A6s on my car this season, I'd like to reiterate the request to make them (and other 13pt tires) have a higher points differential from the R6 (and other 10pt) tires for 2013. The main reason I suggest this is their short period of high performance. They have amazing grip for a lap or two, then fall off as they get hot. Also, they have a steep drop-off in performance as they heat cycle, making them useless for anything more than a few track weekends even when managed very conservatively (run a fast lap or two, then placed in bags). The R6 tire is much more forgiving, has higher heat tolerance (can run for more of the session and over a larger number of events) especially when managed properly. If we dropped point values for all "lesser" tires except the A6, that would allow a chance to match their performance using other methods. BTW, I had the chance to run the Hoosier wets last weekend at Sebring, and their performance, even in standing water, is outstanding! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboShortBus Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Any ETA on this ruling? Sorry to be pushy, but I have some Hoosier coupons to cash in here before the July race weekend. I'm not going to Nationals so if the rules change I'm going to go ahead and order bigger tires. Thanks, Brian Are you really getting 6+ months out of your Hoosiers? I'm not sure I follow? Clear as mud? The changes, if any, wouldn't take effect until 2013. So, how would this affect your July 2012 tire order? Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drivinhardz06 Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 The changes, if any, wouldn't take effect until 2013. So, how would this affect your July 2012 tire order? I think he's saying if things change, his car is going to ST2/TTS right now, which would change his tire order for his upcoming events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlfpkrcn1 Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 I'm waiting as well. I need to make some changes and need to know how many points I will have to work with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperkins Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 After running A6s on my car this season, I'd like to reiterate the request to make them (and other 13pt tires) have a higher points differential from the R6 (and other 10pt) tires for 2013. The main reason I suggest this is their short period of high performance. They have amazing grip for a lap or two, then fall off as they get hot. Also, they have a steep drop-off in performance as they heat cycle, making them useless for anything more than a few track weekends even when managed very conservatively (run a fast lap or two, then placed in bags). Speak for yourself. What you said above hasn't been my experience at all. Maybe your car prep is the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra4B Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 After running A6s on my car this season, I'd like to reiterate the request to make them (and other 13pt tires) have a higher points differential from the R6 (and other 10pt) tires for 2013. The main reason I suggest this is their short period of high performance. They have amazing grip for a lap or two, then fall off as they get hot. Also, they have a steep drop-off in performance as they heat cycle, making them useless for anything more than a few track weekends even when managed very conservatively (run a fast lap or two, then placed in bags). Speak for yourself. What you said above hasn't been my experience at all. Maybe your car prep is the problem. I agree with Scott. Your experience is nothing like what I've experienced on As. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bnjmn Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 I strongly disagree with that characterization of A6 performance. They are faster for more heat cycles than R6s on my car and others as well. They are fast until they cord which makes them cheaper to run than R6s. It takes forever for an R6 to cord, but in my experience its performance starts falling off during the first heat cycle. Also, going by your reasoning, the R6 is a reliability mod and such mods are often assessed points, so perhaps R6s should be +13 as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 I AM speaking for myself and from my experience. The car is set up well and currently holds (or recently held) lap records in both TTD and TTC at Homestead-Miami Speedway, Sebring International Speedway, and Palm Beach International Raceway. In recent back to back testing, R6 tires with equivalent miles and heat cycles as A6 tires (~300 mi and ~18 heat cycles) were faster by about a second. The tires were the same size (225/45/15) and were mounted on the same type of 15x9" rim. The R6 tire had given up about a second compared to when it was new, and the A6 tire was about 3-4 seconds off its times when new. These results were similar with two different drivers. When new, these same A6 tires gave about a 2 second performance advantage over the R6 tire, though that testing was not on the same day. Perhaps living in South Florida with high ambient temperatures has something to do with it. If you guys are happy with the A6 longevity, then that is something for Greg to consider too. I just wanted to voice my opinion based on my experiences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra4B Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 When Hoosier accidentally sent me R6s (I didn't even look at them prior to mounting) I was 2 seconds slower per lap at Road Atlanta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboShortBus Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 When Hoosier accidentally sent me R6s (I didn't even look at them prior to mounting) I was 2 seconds slower per lap at Road Atlanta.lol, I remember that! Our track record holding TTB driver runs new R6s on Saturdays and new A6s on Sundays. Recent results of his experiments are as follows: Homestead 03 10-11 2012, Grand-Am course Sat R6 - 1:32.154 Sun A6 - 1:31.588 Improvement 0.566 (it was this driver's first time driving on this course configuration) Homestead 05 19-20 2012, Grand-Am course Sat R6 - 1:32.177 Sun A6 - 1:31.144 Improvement 1.033 Sebring 03 31 2012 - 04 01 2012, 12-hour course Sat R6 - 2:25.833 Sun A6 - 2:25.072 Improvement 0.761 If the unofficial, general "rule of thumb" is that the TT classes are about 2 seconds apart, and they are separated by 20 points, then it seems to me that a 1 second difference should be worth a difference of 10 points, a 3/4 second difference should be worth 7-8 points, etc. Of course, not all TT class records are 2 seconds apart; some are more, some are less, so this is only a guideline. If you're able to lap a full second quicker for only 3 points, then that is the best deal going. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drivinhardz06 Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 If you're able to lap a full second quicker for only 3 points, then that is the best deal going. Agreed. (I've always agreed on the 2 secs/lap split between classes and 19 pts = 2 seconds as a rule of thumb) However, the issue becomes TT and PT having the same rules. How much faster is the A6 over the R6 in a 20 lap race in Florida from May to Sept? (probably little, or none), how much faster is the A6 over the R6 at Watkins Glen in October over 20 laps? (probably some) 1 lap? (enormous) There is no way to accurately put a pts price on the tires for PT and TT. However they are assessed, one will be have an advantage in the other environment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlfpkrcn1 Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Greg????? It's now July 2.. Any word? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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