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hagakure

Why TT and not racing?

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hagakure

Just a question for Serious TTrs that put a lot into TT competition, are great drivers, but have no plans to race. What drives this decision? I got my comp license last year, bt am not sure I want to actually make the big l;eap on a regular basis. Main reason is it would be a heartbreak to total the car, and well, if you go wheel to wheel long enough, something bad is likely to happen. Just curious to hear from others, will TT ultimately satisfy your "go fast" itch, etc.....welcome a dialogue.

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jason

TT was always a step on the ladder to me, W2W was the goal.

 

Even in TT, if you push it long enough, sooner or later you're going to bend the car, just the likelihood of it being someone else's fault is less than in W2W.

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Fixxxercask

I think I will eventually go W2W. Last year was my first year in TT and I did fairly well for my first year. I want to get a little more experience before I go W2W. I know I can get faster and would love to get a track record or two.

 

Like you mentioned, there is a higher risk of wadding up your car so that has kept me from doing it as well. If I total my car, I will probably buy something much cheaper next time. I also think TT can be cheaper since we are out on track a lot less and therefore tires and brakes don't get chewed up as much. There is always that aspect too. I am a budget racer for sure.

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brkntrxn

What Jason said.

 

I have W2W with other cars, now it is time to race the Z06.

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kbrew8991

they're two completely different thrills

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boomn29

It costs a LOT to go fast.

It costs a LOT to make a street car into a legal w2w car.

 

I personally haven't had $ to do both - that is going FAST in w2w. So it was stay in one of the faster/upper TT classes, or sell my car and look into one of the Spec series for a turn-key w2w car. And I think a lot of people share that crossroad.

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drivinhardz06

For the busy guy that steps out of crazy life to have fun for a weekend, the regions that allow instructors to TT, it's a killer bang for the buck to go be able to compete (and not just ride around in HPDE) and have contingencies that are just as good as w2w.

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Cobra4B
For the busy guy that steps out of crazy life to have fun for a weekend, the regions that allow instructors to TT, it's a killer bang for the buck to go be able to compete (and not just ride around in HPDE) and have contingencies that are just as good as w2w.

^ This... TTing and instructing makes for an awesome weekend with reduced expenses. W2W is way more fun that TT IMO, but it costs more too. My plans this spring are to TT and instruct at VIR next weekend then race at VIR in March.

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Element Tuning
Like you mentioned, there is a higher risk of wadding up your car so that has kept me from doing it as well. If I total my car, I will probably buy something much cheaper next time. I also think TT can be cheaper since we are out on track a lot less and therefore tires and brakes don't get chewed up as much. There is always that aspect too. I am a budget racer for sure.

 

True TT can be less hard on equipment because you can choose to cut your sessions short and still set a winning time. TT is like qualifying but you have more open track so it's actually easier to set a wicked fast lap. You have just as much opportunity to crash your car but way less chance of having car to car contact.

 

I raced motocross for so many years that I've had my fix of wheel to wheel, elbow to elbow, but I do miss it at times. I'm almost afraid that I would be too aggressive and that doesn't fly in amateur racing but I think one day I'll give wheel to wheel a try. For now I love TT and it lets me just go as fast as possible and also allows me to build the car I want. There is plenty of competition in TT also and the drive to win, or to be the best you can be is definitely there.

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rsrdan

Oh, andi can drive it to work

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Balroks

TT was fine for awhile, or if I want a relaxing weekend, but most of the time it can be so bloody boring. That and I was kinda sick of some guy showing up out of the blue, beating everybody by 2 seconds, then disappearing. That's not competition to me, that's like standing in line to take one shot down the range, then getting back in line. I prefer to storm out of the trenches

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Trevor57

I like being able to just go out and drive as fast as I can. Racing is more chess, more variables, more money, more many things. Just a personal choice.

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Z06

Having done W2W, TT is more relaxing and these days relaxing is more appealing. Maybe I'll venture back to W2W with the vette, but for now TT is fun and has been for several years. Texas has a good core group that shows up and battles it out. It's a challenge and a thrill.

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wlfpkrcn1

When you guys say W2W is more expensive than TT. Are you talking cost per minute of track time? Total cost per event?

 

If NASA is not subsidizing your track time and you only run 2 hot laps per session. I suspect your costs would be much higher than racing per minute of track time utilized at the limit. That would be 8 hot laps per day (providing 4 session day), 4 heat cycles on your A compound tires (how many heat cycles before replacement or diminished lap times), Entry fees, fuel, consumables etc.

 

Yes, body contact is more likely in a race group, so that is an unknown "potential" cost. You may race for a couple seasons without any real monetary damage. There is no reason you can't hit the wall and damage your car running a TT session, so solo damage is probably equal from w2w or TT.

 

Cost of building a W2W car vs using a "street car" for TT.- I'm not sure if the cost of building the car should be part of the "per event" costs. Yes, adding a cage, seat, belts, window nets, driver gear etc is expensive. However at the speed a lot of you TT guys are going, I think you are crazy for not having most of the stuff in your car. Especially a good cage, which is the most expensive thing on the list. Not only that, but the chassis stiffness the cage adds will make you faster. Being firmly strapped into a proper seat will help as well.

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obzezzed350
TT was fine for awhile, or if I want a relaxing weekend, but most of the time it can be so bloody boring. That and I was kinda sick of some guy showing up out of the blue, beating everybody by 2 seconds, then disappearing. That's not competition to me, that's like standing in line to take one shot down the range, then getting back in line. I prefer to storm out of the trenches

 

Sounds like it was no competition to him either

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CWeber

We do TT and w2w in different cars.

 

We like the TT car that can be driven to/from the track while a w2w car is not really ideal to drive on the street due to the cage.

 

I could technically drive my spec miata on the street and had my former SM titled and did drive it a few times on the street (just not an ideal situation).

 

 

I think the major expense to going full w2w is the prep (mainly the cage) that people don't want to do to their street car and getting to/from the track in that caged car.

 

 

I see a lot of big money EVOs and Corvettes in TT that you just don't see getting caged advancing to w2w racing. BUT I have seen plenty of TTF and TTE cars get caged and end up in w2w (even TTD seems more commonplace than a TTA or TTB car)

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Vinny

Money.

 

Being you can instruct and run TT..doing the math it'd cost me 2-3x more then what my events cost me now...I'd rather run all 8 of the nasa events in my region TTing then run 4 of them racing. I know if i race once, i'll probably never TT again as im driven hard by competition.

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wlfpkrcn1
Money.

 

Being you can instruct and run TT..doing the math it'd cost me 2-3x more then what my events cost me now...I'd rather run all 8 of the nasa events in my region TTing then run 4 of them racing. I know if i race once, i'll probably never TT again as im driven hard by competition.

 

So TT is cheaper because NASA is subsidizing your entry fee. Not everybody is running TT for free.

 

What if NASA entry fee subsidizing went away? Would there be a difference in costs between the two (TT/W2W) if you were paying the full entry fees. If so how much? How much "at the limit" track time do you get in TT vs W2W?

 

I not try to start an argument, just wanting to know if there is a true cost difference between the two. I could see that you use more brake pads in a given weekend W2W. If you amortize it on time spent at the limit it would even out. Not sure the the difference between a 13/10/7 point tire in cost per event?

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drivinhardz06
If you amortize it on time spent at the limit it would even out. Not sure the the difference between a 13/10/7 point tire in cost per event?

 

If you do 2 laps on the limit in TT over 4 or 5 sessions, that's 8 or 10 laps on the limit more than you run in w2w because the car would never last 3 or 4 laps in a race running that pace, let alone 15, running at TT pace (with a heavy high hp car anyway). Plus with traffic, it's impossible.

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SNAKBITN

W2W cost more money.You use more of everything be it fuel,brakes,tires and wear and tear on the car.I ran TTB for 2 years and had a ball.You run hard for a few laps and then you normally back off alittle.W2W you beat the crap out of your car the entire time but it is more fun to me than TT.

 

Robert

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sperkins

For fun: W2W>TT

For cheaper fun: TT>W2W

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wlfpkrcn1
If you amortize it on time spent at the limit it would even out. Not sure the the difference between a 13/10/7 point tire in cost per event?

 

If you do 2 laps on the limit in TT over 4 or 5 sessions, that's 8 or 10 laps on the limit more than you run in w2w because the car would never last 3 or 4 laps in a race running that pace, let alone 15, running at TT pace (with a heavy high hp car anyway). Plus with traffic, it's impossible.

 

 

I agree with you. TT and W2W are two different set ups. A brutally fast TT setup would never work in W2W. In W2W you need a consistently fast car for a long period, not brutally fast for a short period. This also inferes there are two different standards for the limit of the cars ability. Over the course of the day you get 8-10 TT limit laps. These will be faster than the 15-20 W2W limit laps

Edited by Guest

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wlfpkrcn1
W2W cost more money.You use more of everything be it fuel,brakes,tires and wear and tear on the car.I ran TTB for 2 years and had a ball.You run hard for a few laps and then you normally back off alittle.W2W you beat the crap out of your car the entire time but it is more fun to me than TT.

 

Robert

 

Do you have records of TT cost vs W2W? I would be interested in rough numbers if you have them available

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CWeber

w2w can be close in cost to TT depending on the car you use and how you choose to transport the car to/from events.

 

if we do not at all consider the truck and trailer we already own, then we have had almost identical expenses between our TT car and our Spec Miata and we do pay for all events (do not instruct with NASA because we instruct with other groups instead and like the focus on ourselves at NASA events)

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