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JSG1901

How to attact more drivers into GTS...?

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Cyclingpeaks
sounding more and more like I won't ever be competitive in a 88' 911 AND still be able to race in PCA in stock class.

 

I don't think GTS fields are shrinking either. Seems to be a very popular class.

 

For BMW drivers.....

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Cyclingpeaks

Don't get me wrong. I like BMW's too. My daily is a Dinan Stage 2, SMG E46, M3, carbon fiber hood and trunk with BBS wheels, 375hp at Crank, all black....

 

But, I like racing my Porsche....

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gobuffs
I am all about learning, tweaking setup, analyzing data, getting coaching. Heck, I am a race engineer/professional coach as my full time job! That's what I do 50 hours a week. I have gotten a ton of coaching and my coach told me that when I was running consistent 2:15, 2:16's at VIR, I was at the limit of what the car could do and no more coaching was necessary. Well, that's my consistent times now. I have tweaked setup, corner balance religiously, etc. read and try to figure out as much as possible. I love that stuff! Heck, I have even have a custom set of BIG brakes coming for the Porsche that Performance Friction is making for me so I can see if that's the issue! Don't get me wrong either, its not just the car as I am not a pro driver, and can always improve, but to drive a 2:09 at VIR? 7 seconds faster? That's a different class altogether from my GTS2 car, no matter if Skeen, Jason, DJ, or Schumi is driving it.

 

I'd pay $10 to see what Skeen would do in your car at VIR.

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Eric W.

 

For BMW drivers.....

 

I dont think there are ANY BMW GTS2 racers in Great Lakes region. GL is dominated by Porsches (for now)....

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jcrist

Ok, I missed the STOCK CLASS portion. My tone remains the same though as who in the hell would think a stock classed car would work in an unlimited class? I did prepared in BMW which was close enough to run both but not optimal for NASA. I had to make a choice and I chose to optimize for GTS. It was my choice.

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jcrist

And I don't know of any stock class BMW's that do well in GTS

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jcrist

 

For BMW drivers.....

 

I dont think there are ANY BMW GTS2 racers in Great Lakes region. GL is dominated by Porsches (for now)....

 

Highly modified Pcars with sweet Aero (really Good aero;) ) and Moton triples.

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JSG1901
And I don't know of any stock class BMW's that do well in GTS

Maybe I'm wrong, but I can't think of any stock class anythings that do well in GTS. There are just too many limitations on "stock" cars.

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maxxfish

As someone who just sold a GTS car, and is building another one, I think the problem is CCA and PCA classing. If they would consolidate classes by strictly having power-to-weight and the spec classes, then everyone could run with multiple organizations.

 

CCA uses engine displacement to designate classes?!!! Ridiculous. Add a lexan windshield and you're in Mod?!!! Dumb.

 

My new car that I'm building for GTS-4 would be in Super-Mod in CCA. So I'd be in a class that maybe has 4 cars in the whole country. No thanks.

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cstreit911
I love the family in NASA, I enjoy the people, the races and the competitiveness, and want to stay, but it's sounding more and more like I won't ever be competitive in a 88' 911 AND still be able to race in PCA in stock class.

 

You want a Stock Class car to run competetively in a GT series?

 

We'd have to have a HP adjustment table that would make SCCA's rule books look like Cliff Notes to do that....

 

My 1970 911 was damn competetive when I ran it. Look at the GTS4 records for the Midwest.. It made 250HP and 215 FT-LBS in GTS4. There was a lot more that could have been done to it. Early 911's don't suffer at all, they just need to be built with recognition of their, umm, 'special' characteristics.

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cstreit911

I also wanted to add, that anually during the rules discussion, there is another member that brings up very compelling arguements that it is actually higher HP cars rather than Higher Torque cars that are favored by our formula.

 

An interesting discussion around it...

 

http://www.houseofthud.com/cartech/torqueversushorsepower.htm

 

 

Having said this, while no calculation is perfect, it is impossible to accomodate everyone's engine configuration and desired level of spending and preparation. I think you will find that to be successful anywhere you will have to committ to the series. Hell there were guys in "stock" PCA classes that were running $30k engines 15 years ago...

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PushinTheLimit

I guess what I don’t get, is why the GTS thing in the first place? What not get NASA to get ST3 going and ST4 if needed or maybe that’s a PT class and not limit to running against just German cars or even just European cars as just suggested. I think St3 would also help get some more SCCA folks over to NASA. If you think about the hay day of World Challenge or Grand Am today, how cool was it and is it to see 911’s battling, Corvettes, M3’s, A4’s, Vipers, STi’s, Evo’s etc… I am a fan of Spec Series, but it seems like maybe we have too many and this is not the economy to be doing it in. It seems like all of us want the same thing and that is to race and have lots of cars to race with. I had a blast running Spec Miata for many many years, but missed the speed and couldn’t go back to that now, but I do miss always having someone to race with.

 

This. I don't have anything against the GTS classes... but I would like to a merger for GTS and ST. Like said above, we could have SU, ST1, ST2, ST3 and ST4 do away with the PT classes. That would bring car counts up tremendously and I think would make for great racing against many different makes/models of cars. We can't cross over to GTS with our cars, but I think most would welcome the challenge of running against the GTS cars in ST.

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brkntrxn

Nothing prevents a GTS car from running with ST now, right?

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jcrist
Nothing prevents a GTS car from running with ST now, right?

 

Nothing at all does. We race in GTS because we like it. We put 60+ on the track last year at Nats IIRC. Let's not lose our minds here, GTS is a strong group and we like where we are

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PushinTheLimit

In the Southeast, we are probably lighter on GTS cars compared to other regions. I just want more people to race against, doesn't matter if its folks from AI, AIX, GTS3, GTS4, etc. I'd rather see 3-4 classes with 10-15 cars rather than 8-10 classes with 3-4 cars.

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cstreit911

Using that same logic, why not just have one big class in NASA and then everyone would have someone to race against... GTS1 cars and Miata's, GTS4-5 with AIX, etc...

 

GTS has enough cars to justify being it's own series. Here in the Midwest and Great Lakes, we are typically the largest group every weekend.

 

It's a brand. it's an identity to the series (like Spec Pinata, er, Miata...)

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Michael G.

There should be more than enough GTS cars in the SE to make a good size group, considering fields in BMWCCA, PCA and PBOC races. So, again, it is more of a question how to attract them?

Michael G.

NE GTS Dir.

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cwbaader

Simple answer that I have been postulating for five years. MAKE THE CLASSES SUCH THAT CARS FROM OTHER ORGANIZATIONS CAN EASILY CROSS OVER AND RACE...COMPETITIVELY. Every other organization has classes where this is easily doable. Chuck

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scottbm3
Simple answer that I have been postulating for five years. MAKE THE CLASSES SUCH THAT CARS FROM OTHER ORGANIZATIONS CAN EASILY CROSS OVER AND RACE...COMPETITIVELY. Every other organization has classes where this is easily doable. Chuck

 

Chuck,

 

Then we just become another one of those organizations.... We want to be our own with our own identity ! Haven't you figured that out in your 5 years of postulating.

 

 

-Scott B.

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UKRBMW

You guys are also generalizing too much. Not all GTS cars can easily crossover to GTS. Many have modifications that will incur penalty in ST or simply not allowed, Cup cars get dinged on modification factor. When you consider a GTS4 track record at VIR is 2:03 and ST2 is 1:58 and you potentially have to incur more penalties, why would you crossover to get crushed? ST would need to modify their rules to equalize the cars and as you can see by recent changes they are going the other way - tightening things up and pushing overflow to STR.

 

GTS is growing. As NASA brings more and more contingencies you'll see even more crossover. Plus, from what I can see NASA entry fees are cheaper than SCCA. Plus national SCCA classes seem to have low counts and ITE doesn't offer any contingencies, so why would we go backwards to make the class competitive for a handful of SCCA cars?

 

Keep everything stable and let's keep growing.

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TJAndriesen

interesting conversation....

 

I just bought a '96 M3 and am looking for "what" to build it into. I've raced SCCA Spec Miata and a Datsun 240Z which was running ITS and on its way to E Prod. Decided I wanted to go a different way, enjoyed my street 335xi and thought an E36 would be a good platform. The original plan was to build it to SCCA STU rules but I started looking around and heard about GTS. I'm not quite sure which way I'm going right now.

 

I'm a club racer - looking for fun more than going to nationals. Why should I build and race GTS?

 

1) I want to be competitive though don't expect to be at the front on a reasonable budget. Anyone who expects that is crazy. Mid-pack for reasonable $$$ is cool in my books.

2) I want a reasonable race schedule. Decent sized fields at good tracks. I won't build a car for 4 races a year. Either offer a good schedule within a reasonable towing distance or let me build where I can race with multiple organizations

3) I want rules enforced. Cars make contact in racing but it shouldn't happen because a driver wants to bump his way around the corner and there should be serious repercussions if someone decides to go aggro. Accidents happen and I fully understand it but if race official don't enforce the rules I'd leave fast.

4) I want to race with guys I enjoy. I loved SCCA because of they guys I raced with. I race with Midwestern Council now and enjoy the guys. Good guys means good clean but hard racing.

5) I do like the idea of a flexible classing system. Saw the GTS rules and thought something was missing - like most of the rules. I do like the idea being able to go where I want with the build.

 

This build will take more than a year so I'm looking forward to seeing how this evolves....

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