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Ballast rules nuances


speedengineer

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Rules say that ballast needs to be located in the passenger footwell area between the firewall and the rear most factory seat bolts.

 

Because I want to have a passenger seat in my car for non-race events, the 175lbs of ballast I need would be in the way of the seat. I would like to bolt the ballast through the passenger floor pan as it says in the rules, but have the ballast be located on the bottom side of the floorpan, rather than in the car. Is this legal, or does it have to be located on the top side of the floorpan?

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Could you put the ballast under and just in front of the seat and just leave the seat in for the extra weight it provides? How about a cool suit system and a fire system in the trunk. Do you have a light weight battery?

 

How to make lead ballast in unusual shapes:

 

Caution, this may be hazzardous to your health

 

make a mold with a plywood bottom and 2x4's for the sides

 

melt lead shot in a pan you will never use for any other purpose

 

pour the melted lead carefully into the mold, there will be quite a bit of steam released from the wood

 

let it cool for a long time

 

if you want to, you can put pipes in the mold where you want to bolt it to your floorpan to avoid drilling through the lead

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Well, I might have a lot of ballast to add, and the floorpan is pretty thin and soft, so I wanted it kinda spread out. My current plan is to get four lengths of 2x2" square tubing, and them pour molten lead into them. Then each of these bars can be bolted up to the bottom of the floor pan, and I can easily remove one bar at a time to get the the weight I need to be at. The bottom of the floor pan is flat, but the top is not, so I wouldn't be able to bolt them to the top side.

 

No cool suit for me. Might do a fire system though, but that doesn't weigh too much. Stock size battery right now.

 

Thanks for the ideas! Is it even legal to put it on the bottom side though?

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Make sure those dont come loose if you decide to bolt the to the bottom as getting bumped or scraped off could happen. About 2yrs ago I was working Turn1 at Phoenix Int Raceway and 1 of the guys with a stock car put 4 lead bricks in his frame and pourly secured. Eventually they worked their way loose and each time around 2 found their way sliding from Turn1 to NASCAR turn2(approx 1/8 mile on the banked turned). The possibilities of what could have happened really stuck a nerve and what was worse was... well the driver. I dont recommend mounting ballast externally for the pure fact of the safety of others if it happens to get bumped or scraped loose, over time.

 

Thats my opinion.

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Well, I might have a lot of ballast to add, and the floorpan is pretty thin and soft, so I wanted it kinda spread out. My current plan is to get four lengths of 2x2" square tubing, and them pour molten lead into them. Then each of these bars can be bolted up to the bottom of the floor pan, and I can easily remove one bar at a time to get the the weight I need to be at. The bottom of the floor pan is flat, but the top is not, so I wouldn't be able to bolt them to the top side.

 

No cool suit for me. Might do a fire system though, but that doesn't weigh too much. Stock size battery right now.

 

Thanks for the ideas! Is it even legal to put it on the bottom side though?

 

5.1.2 Ballast

Up to two hundred (200) pounds of additional weight may be added to the vehicle providing that all of the

following conditions are met:

a) This additional weight must serve no other purpose than to increase the weight of the vehicle. This

additional weight shall be known as “ballast.”

b) Ballast must be made of solid metal.

c) All pieces of ballast must be bolted within the passenger footwell area, through the floor pan on the

passenger side of the cockpit, between the firewall and rear most factory seat mounting holes for

the front seat.

d) All ballast must be secured in such a way that it cannot come loose in an impact. This means that

the bolts holding the weight must be strong enough to support the load and be backed by big

enough washers so that the mounting will not punch through the thin metal floor. Also, at least two

(2) bolts (3/8 or larger) must be used for the larger weights such as fifty (50) pound dumbbells.

However, it is strongly recommended that at least one (1) 3/8-inch SAE Grade-5 bolt, two (2)

fender washers, and a locking nut system be used for every ten (10) pounds of weight. Example: A

seven (7) pound block requires at least one (1) bolt system as described herein. A thirty (30) pound

block requires at least a three (3)-bolt system. NOTE: Metric Grade 8.8 is equivalent to SAE Grade

5.

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Use a ton of ventilation and a very good mask if you're going to play with lead yourself - even then I wouldn't really recommend it. That stuff is pretty toxic!

 

Second-hand weightlifting weights are pretty cheap - thats the way to go with ballast imho. A 25lb (and even some 45lb-ers) plate can be relatively thin, enough to fit under a seat, and with a strategic layout you could probably fit a couple underneath a passenger seat. Then put one or two more additional in the footwell and the passenger can just put their feet on top of them, its going to be tough to hurt a chunk of weighlifting iron after all.

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I can definitely see the hazzard of a weight coming off the bottom of the car! But at the same time, I hate to have it in the car with me, for the same reason. I guess the best solution is to make sure they don't come off no matter where they are located!!

 

I think custom lead shapes of some sort are the way to go for me. The s2000 floor pan doesn't leave very much for flat places to put large weights when the seat is installed. I'd also rather have the weight farther back than way up by the passenger's feet, which is another reason why I wanted to go with weight on the bottom side.

 

When I first read the rules, I took the phrase "within the passenger footwell area" to mean more that the weight has to be in that location front-rear and left-right on the car. But I can also see how it can be interpreted as meaning the weight has to be inside the actual passenger compartment.

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I can definitely see the hazzard of a weight coming off the bottom of the car! But at the same time, I hate to have it in the car with me, for the same reason.

 

my driving style enables everything underneath the car to get bumped or scraped so Ill be welding the mounting bolts/bracket to the floor(ballast inside). you should see the antisub belt bolt... even its missing a few threads which now reminds me to recheck it.

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my driving style enables everything underneath the car to get bumped or scraped so Ill be welding the mounting bolts/bracket to the floor(ballast inside). you should see the antisub belt bolt... even its missing a few threads which now reminds me to recheck it.

 

Dang! Hopping some curbs eh? At least you don't have to worry about the thing unscrewing since the threads are nice and deformed!

 

The s2k floorpan is recessed up from the bottom of the rocker panel ~1.5" and then less than a foot away is a 'frame' rail that extends down even lower than the rocker seam. This effectively makes a recessed channel about 9" wide and 3' long that is about 1.75" deep up into the car. A great place for ballast, if it were deemed legal. If I run H1, I won't even need much ballast, I just want to keep my options open in case I run H2.

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Ballast should be bolted inside the car , under no circumstance you want 200 lbs of ballast coming loose and flying into another car. By the rules it would be illegal to bolt your ballast anywhere but the foot well .

Besides the rules I must assume were written for dedicated track cars which rarely carry passenger seats. It would take you no more than 30 min to unbolt the ballast and bolt the seat.

Keep it safe for you and others.

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Yeah, except for when I run TT I have to run the ballast, and want to have the seat mounted at the same time! It would be difficult and unsafe to place 200 lbs ballast within a 18" by 18" area where the passenger's feet sit. That much weight needs to be distributed out over more area than that. If I mount it on the bottom, spread it out, and through bolt it properly with backing plates on the top side too, there will be no chance of it coming loose, lol... Not like I'm about to ghetto rig it with safety wire or something.

 

Looks like if I ever decide to run H2 I might just need to make a separate ballast setup. Oh well. Thanks for the input everyone!

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I still don't understand why you need to have ballast in tt plus a passanger seat with a 170 lbs passanger , at least, when in hc you can't have more than 200 lbs of ballast by the rules.

I would strongly disagree with your idea of bolting ballast underneath the car.

If you shear the bolt head the ballast is gone, plus by the rules the bolts need to go thru the ballast , no plates to bolt it down.

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I see what you say about the backing plates but still , you shear the bolt and is bye bye . Why do you feel is unsafe to have the ballast inside?

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ballast inside coming loose only affects the guy that didn't keep his ballast tightened...

ballast outside coming loose will likely affect someone else who isn't responsible for your stuff....

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I still don't understand why you need to have ballast in tt plus a passanger seat with a 170 lbs passanger , at least, when in hc you can't have more than 200 lbs of ballast by the rules.

 

Per TT rules, the weight of a passenger does NOT count towards the race weight of the vehicle. They'll make your passenger get out before you roll over the scales. Kind of a dumb rule imo, but I can see why they have it.

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ballast inside coming loose only affects the guy that didn't keep his ballast tightened...

ballast outside coming loose will likely affect someone else who isn't responsible for your stuff....

 

And ballast the doesn't come loose doesn't affect anyone...

 

 

Perhaps exhaust systems should be illegal, because they're on the bottom of the car and held on by only a couple rubber hangers and a bolt. Or maybe rear wings. Or maybe racecars shouldn't be allowed on track, because that is 2600 lbs of metal that could possibly get out of control and hit 'someone else who isn't responsible for your stuff.'

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That much weight needs to be distributed out over more area than that. If I mount it on the bottom, spread it out, and through bolt it properly with backing plates on the top side too, there will be no chance of it coming loose,

 

 

The way I figure it you could put 30-60 pounds under the seat and 50-100 pounds just in front of the passenger seat plus the weight of the passenger seat. If you want to use the entire footwell area, that would mean the passenger would rest their feet on the ballast. This would allow you to distribute the weight across a large area. A 30 pound lead ingot is 3"x4"x10". You should be able to fit two of those under the seat and the rest ahead of the seat. The rules unfortunately do not mention backing plates, but they do reference a "system." You should try and get a clarification to allow you to use a backing plate (for example no thicker than 1/8" steel plate, no larger than the latteral limits of the ballast) since there is plenty of room underneath your car.

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lead sheets are flexible... run 2 big batteries in the trunk? add a fire system? add more bars to the cage? dont poop until after the race.

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In our region if you take a passenger with you you're session is automatically a DQ.

 

For TT? First I've ever heard of that.

 

i guess you havent been to AZ then. TT also has its own track sessions and split big bore/small bore

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No, never been to AZ. Here in the Great Lakes and Midwest, we have five (5) 15-minute sessions for TT only cars, and you are gridded by your lap time from the previous session, with the first session on Saturday being your warm-up. Passengers are allowed, and times are counted either way.

 

Regards,

 

Sam

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No, never been to AZ. Here in the Great Lakes and Midwest, we have five (5) 15-minute sessions for TT only cars, and you are gridded by your lap time from the previous session, with the first session on Saturday being your warm-up. Passengers are allowed, and times are counted either way.

 

Regards,

 

Sam

Likewise here except for the part I mentioned. I believe the reasoning behind it is; if you're taking a passenger you aren't (read: shouldn't be) going for a "flyer" for your fast time of the day. Therefore, just to be sure you don't, they DQ you.

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