SO.CAL New Rules Update For S.cal ONLY

[jmeris]

we are trying to improve, and bring back good clean competition. the future will tell.

 

I think the socal region just killed a GREAT OPPORTUNITY for the car count to potentially be over a 20-car H2 field at a socal regional event or two

 

If you want to BRING BACK good clean competition, revert to the rules that have worked in the past. Or at least keep them stable for more than 2 years in a row!! The present is telling you that another upset in rules (adapting NATIONAL level rules to a single region) forecasts the future doesn't look as promising as what it could be.

 

MOST, if not all of the AZ region was willing to make the trip to Buttonwillow to race with the socal folks!!!!! Now with this adapted national ruleset, the AZ region is voicing their opinion and not going at all. How sad.

 

If the socal racers was to have a "gentleman's agreement" to use the national hp cap for the regional socal racers

then so be it....and leave it as a "gentleman's agreement", and not enforce a national rule regionally.

 

Just think, if the AZ region showed up to a socal event and what kind of showing (big field) the HC field would've had!! Not to mention the other fast H2 racers from nor cal willing to battle with everyone and the potential for great racing throughout the ENTIRE field (not just the front runners).

 

But I'm sure the socal region is happy with the new rule enforcement-afterall, it is the socal region and everyone else are just visitors. And with that said, having a less than 10-car count for the HC race.

 

 

These hp caps all because of some Ass-hole that LEGALLY built his engine to the rules for the 2010 nationals, made great reliable hp and won H2-under the myth of that it cost BIG MONEY to build the engine, when it in fact, it cost less than $1500 in machine work. The cost incurred, would be that of an engine rebuild anyway.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Guest

[realride]

The az guys took note of this change because quite a few of us already had a couple of socal races on our schedules for this year. Come to find out many of our cars will end up being illegal...

 

 

AGAIN this rules is for SO.CAL only. being from AZ you will not be illegal, unless you want to run for championship points in So.cal

 

We would love to have the AZ or N.cal come and join us, and you will have no HP limit.

[Leland]

Im a little confused. SoCal Honda Challenge is segregating themselves from the rest of the Honda Challenge nation? Of course I have the right to be concerned I race in Honda Challenge.

[realride]

we are trying to improve, and bring back good clean competition. the future will tell.

 

I think the socal region just killed a GREAT OPPORTUNITY for the car count to potentially be over a 20-car H2 field at a socal regional event or two

 

 

 

Just think, if the AZ region showed up to a socal event and what kind of showing (big field) the HC field would've had!! Not to mention the other fast H2 racers from nor cal willing to battle with everyone and the potential for great racing throughout the ENTIRE field (not just the front runners).

 

 

 

 

I'm glad to see all the interest from N.cal and AZ to run the full season in the HC2 So.cal championship.

So in the case that all of the racers posting on this forums are entering the so.cal championship, it will be an amazing season in so.cal.

 

So if truly you all intend to run the entire season in so.cal I may have to revised this rule has none of you participants vote for this rule change.

 

I'm looking forward to see all the entries for Button Willow with excitement, I will keep you posted but will honor no HP if we getting the over 20cars entry mention

[Marcel D.]

The az guys took note of this change because quite a few of us already had a couple of socal races on our schedules for this year. Come to find out many of our cars will end up being illegal...

 

 

AGAIN this rules is for SO.CAL only. being from AZ you will not be illegal, unless you want to run for championship points in So.cal

 

We would love to have the AZ or N.cal come and join us, and you will have no HP limit.

I was going to say this but didn't want to make a statement I'm not qualified to do. This agreement was just for us , everybody else is welcome with all the hp they can bring. There now everybody is happy.

[jmeris]

AGAIN this rules is for SO.CAL only. being from AZ you will not be illegal, unless you want to run for championship points in So.cal

 

We would love to have the AZ or N.cal come and join us, and you will have no HP limit.

 

 

So if an AZ or nor cal racer wins both H2 races and get dyno'd, and dynos OVER the HP limit. Then he or she does NOT get DQ'd because it is NOT their home region and not racing for so cal points? In addition, the winner gets all the contingencies as well? Is that how I understand it?

[Leland]

AGAIN this rules is for SO.CAL only. being from AZ you will not be illegal, unless you want to run for championship points in So.cal

 

We would love to have the AZ or N.cal come and join us, and you will have no HP limit.

 

 

So if an AZ or nor cal racer wins both H2 races and get dyno'd, and dynos OVER the HP limit. Then he or she does NOT get DQ'd because it is NOT their home region and not racing for so cal points? In addition, the winner gets all the contingencies as well? Is that how I understand it?

 

Sounds good to me.

[realride]

AGAIN this rules is for SO.CAL only. being from AZ you will not be illegal, unless you want to run for championship points in So.cal

 

We would love to have the AZ or N.cal come and join us, and you will have no HP limit.

 

 

So if an AZ or nor cal racer wins both H2 races and get dyno'd, and dynos OVER the HP limit. Then he or she does NOT get DQ'd because it is NOT their home region and not racing for so cal points? In addition, the winner gets all the contingencies as well? Is that how I understand it?

 

Yes you are right as always.

No dyno need it, no socal points but you will get contingencies

[ILIKETODRIVE]

I agree if this is only for people collecting points in SoCal. That's fine. However, this statement...

 

But you have to remember that h2 is basically h4 with a swap and you should be able to go to the junk yard and swap an engine and be competitive.

...I disagree with. So do the H2 rules. (Aftermarket parts on B18/B20? Yuuup.)

 

Same reason I don't like the National whp cap:

 

Honda Challenge is not Performance Touring. In PT I can build a car to the max of the rules AND my budget. (If you need me to explain this, I can.) In HC, if I don't build it to the max of the rules that is my own fault. They are outlined for me to follow, depending on which engine/chassis I choose.

 

If I choose to build a budget mid-pack car I know what to expect out of the car. I also know what to expect out of myself. I also know what the limits of the rules are. Therefore, I should not complain and tell everybody else to lower their whp to let me catch up.

[Marcel D.]

This agreement in no way was intended to separate so cal from the rest of the hc nation nor intended to keep anybody away. All the contrary it is intended to level the field and the only way we have is to follow the rules. This is nothing outside of what is written already. We are just deciding to follow what is already there. This by no means is binding with peeps that did not agree to it. I intend to honor the agreement and I hope that the rest of the homeboys here do the rest. That will give me a clear picture of where I stand if I decide to dump 10-15000 to go to nats .

If I race what a better way to know what I can do than following the rules.

But again if you guys want to come here you are not binded by this agreement. We like to host guys from other regions , so please dont have bad feelings about this, we are a community of guys that like to go fast and have fun and share good times . Let's keep it like that.

[jmeris]

if I decide to dump 10-15000 to go to nats .

 

Marcel, you're joking right? It doesn't cost THAT much.

 

Would you go for about half? because, that's about what it costs.

[JW Racing]

I agree with the decision and support you Benny. I think it will make it fair for the cars/engines that have a distinct dis-advantage due to a particular engine and chassis combo or build budget whichever it may be. Thankfully for this, I will be rebuilding my H2 engine, submitting a baseline and will seriously be making an attempt to return and race H2 with my friends instead of doing H1 by myself or even Time Attacks elsewhere. I look forward to some very close racing and it should be fun!

*Now if I can just fit it into my work schedule*

 

I also admire the enforcement of Passing under yellow, the contact and safety equipment regs, it is a big step in the respect of each other and each ones cars. This will encourage new drivers who may be afraid of possible bold driving to join us.

[Marcel D.]

if I decide to dump 10-15000 to go to nats .

 

Marcel, you're joking right? It doesn't cost THAT much.

 

Would you go for about half? because, that's about what it costs.

well maybe I exaggerated a little. But I was taking in consideration transportation at 4.60 gallon of fuel and that's me taking my stuff is about $2000 plus 2-3 set of tires another2-3 and a national engine, maybe was off but you have to count with at least $7-8 thou.

[Leland]

if this whole thing is about keeping cost down and competitive and fun and fast and hard to cheat and whatever else for H2 then why allow any internal engine mods beside the basic decking the head, .040 over or etc...?

 

for someone to build an engine and have to dyno tune it for the maximum performance per the horse power cap allowed for the engine in order to stay competitive just raises the cost because thats more time spent on the dyno to get it dialed in.

 

saying that az or nor cal can come into your house with uncapped hp and have a better chance at taking youre contingency, which we all know keeps us going, is just foolish IMHO. on the other hand if you require a dyno then that raises the cost of an outsider and puts socal at risks of continuously only racing each other and that gets old in due time. if for some retarded reason other regions adopt this ridiculous H2 ONLY national HP cap rule and have to dyno for their home track(s) and again for away track(s) and then adjust to be legal for which ever track racing on just doesnt seem low budget grassroots style.

 

2013... rule 8.1 H2 - H5 only and thats all thats allowed and then weight adjustments

H1 unlimited.

 

 

 

 

As far as the car contact during racing bumper to bumper or fender to fender should have a standard ruling but all cases need to be looked at individually and hopefully no one jumps the gun and gets the shit end of the stick. Also like to add that we all would like to have a properly functioning cars each and every time we enter and exit the track.

[Leland]

shoo-shiddily-diddily end of the stick.

 

 

omg i almost peed myself... nice auto edit lol

[JW Racing]

if this whole thing is about keeping cost down and competitive and fun and fast and hard to cheat and whatever else for H2 then why allow any internal engine mods beside the basic decking the head, .040 over or etc...

You obviously haven't read the rules closely, nowhere is .040 over allowed in H2, it must be a size available from the dealer as a factory part and the dealer max size is .25 over only (10.3(B)) besides standard. Punching .25 over does virtually nothing and is only important for when a cylinder get scratched or is out of tolerance. I have tried it all and I speak from experience. The power is all in the heads and by the rules you can work on the heads enough to get a fat powerband.

 

As for the cap, if one guy uses a junkyard engine that meets the cap, and one guy builds to the rules but tunes for the cap. The guy that tunes for the cap will have a fatter curve under the cap thus if you still want an advantage, you can find one by tuning your car for a low to mid powerband. That in itself is a challenge as much as it it to build the most HP you can. I can tell you my engines and my customers will have the fattest curve under the cap possible to maximize the hp opportunity we are given. Will this keep cost down, not too sure but at least the HP will be fair because I am tired of naturally being at the cap with my motor built to the max of the rules, while another has 15+ over the cap tuned to no cap, and pulls away from me.

 

Bump drafting or a little "hey I'm here touch" should be a part of racing and should have no penalty, However the kamikaze dive bomb and no hold barred driving in the ones door will not be tolerated and that is a good thing.

[Marcel D.]

I didn't know that we were able to do any internal mods. Even the shaving of the head is very specific by the compression allowed. One inch port matching is hardly a huge mod. There is hp to gain there , and the valve train can be change but still valves have to be oem.

So we have a blue printed honda engine. Optimized for what we do. How is this spending more money.

You could dyno and spend money there, but for the cap , in a mild build you should be able to be out of there in no more than 2 hrs.

So how it is that we are spending more money following the rules. Please explain because I don't understand.

[Leland]

8.1 Engine

a) Engines may be balanced and/or blueprinted. Lightning of moving parts beyond what is necessary to

balance is prohibited. Engine bearings may be replaced with aftermarket replacements and engine

clearances (piston to wall, valve lash, etc) are unrestricted and are considered blueprinting.

b) Engines may be bored to a maximum of .040 inch (1 mm) over standard bore size.

 

hmmm nuff typed

 

as far as INTERNAL MODS take it from TB to oil pan must remain oem for the series engine used and .5 compression makes a difference.

[JW Racing]

10. Allowed modifications - H2 ONLY

10.1 Introductory notes(read 10.1 B)

10.2 Limited prep vehicles only

10.3 Limited prep vehicles Engine Preparation

 

The rules you typed don't apply to H2 Limited prep cars. Only H1 and H4 etc. It is very clear if you read every line in the book. I build engines for a living, I know what the rules are. Take some time and go over every line and it will come to you.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Guest

[Leland]

I will again say I am new to the game and would like to know if anyone has a quick link to a thread from 2010 or 11 that explains the original HP caps for nationals so then maybe I can have a new perspective on the ruling.

[JW Racing]

They can be found in the private drivers section in the caps thread and "my b16 engine at nats" thread

[Leland]

They can be found in the private drivers section in the caps thread and "my b16 engine at nats" thread

 

ninja lol i guess i have a reason to get in on the "PRIVATE" drivers forum then.

 

and

 

"it must be a size available from the dealer as a factory part and the dealer max size is .25 over only (10.3(B)) besides standard."

 

I stand corrected sir... I have never actually looked to see what was available from the dealer and .25 over is the only optional size offered.

[JW Racing]

No biggie, I just want to be sure the correct information is out there. Not trying to be a jerk. H2 has its own tight rule set and this is why I often run H1 to unleash some demons once in a while but nobody runs H1 here and H2 is the surely place if you want to battle the best drivers.

 

Ninja indeed! Jeremy should get back shortly with your allowance to the private section. It may be a day though not sure how often he check it.

 

I wouldn't be too concerned with the cap if I were you, and take full advantage of it not being in your region. If you intend to travel to the nats on the other hand, then you may definitely want to be informed and do your homework. If you intend to run So cal once in a while, you will be allowed the HP you have and you will need it as So Cal and Nor cal has some of the best HC drivers in the country, capped or not.

[joe barile]

But you have to remember that h2 is basically h4 with a swap and you should be able to go to the junk yard and swap an engine and be competitive.

 

@civicek....Dude, I don't know which H4 rules you have or have not read. No way is H2 "basically H4 with a swap". Maybe that is what it was supposed to be way back when and maybe that is how it should be now but H4 does not allow lexan, carbon fiber hood, cams,etc. Some cars in H4 are forced by the rules to race with smaller brake packages than their competitors who have the same motor and weight. Ask me how I know.

[Marcel D.]

But you have to remember that h2 is basically h4 with a swap and you should be able to go to the junk yard and swap an engine and be competitive.

 

@civicek....Dude, I don't know which H4 rules you have or have not read. No way is H2 "basically H4 with a swap". Maybe that is what it was supposed to be way back when and maybe that is how it should be now but H4 does not allow lexan, carbon fiber hood, cams,etc. Some cars in H4 are forced by the rules to race with smaller brake packages than their competitors who have the same motor and weight. Ask me how I know.

 

ok, "dude", besides a swap and a few minor mods, tell me what is the huge difference between them, and again if you read my post I said "basically". You can take a H4 CRX single cam vtec, change the cams and intake and voila you have a H2 car. So BASICALLY is the same car and you didn't even need a swap. That's what I meant by "basically", dude.

If your car makes weight without lexan, you don't need to use lexan or carbon fiber anything, in fact there is a bunch of cars running just glass.