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Rizzolo

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i am ready to buy tires for HPDE and i am looking for suggestions for what would work well for me. it will be a first time at the track for me.

 

i have 65 mustang. it should be pretty fast, if the motor doesn't blow up on the lauch pad. i will need to drive to and from the track, but will be driving the car very little on the street otherwise. cost IS an object (family and job you know).

 

i have looked into Kumho Victoracers and they look like a pretty good bet and in my range. Other suggestions?

 

thanks,

(this site is sort of addictive)

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Victoracers are good, so are Kuhmo V700's and Toyo RA1's.

 

If you want something more streetable (and affordable), you might get away with using The Falken Azenis.

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Since you say you're new to this, I'll point out something that you may already know. There is no reason why you can't track on your normal tires. This is what I do. It's easier, just as fun and avoids the hassles of changing the tires after the event (I wouldn't mind before the event, since I am already anticipating the day).

 

Just another way to look at it...

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The Falken Azenis is an excellent HPDE tire, especially if you drive to and from the events. The pricing is great as well. The only question will be if they make an Azenis in the size you need.

 

I've run a couple HPDE weekends on the Azenis and I am very happy with the grip and the wear. They are not an R compound tire but are the next best thing.

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it will be a first time at the track for me.

 

This is the first hint to me that you should use your normal street tires. For your first couple of events, and maybe more, just concentrate on learning how to drive at high speed at a track. Don't worry about high temp brake fluid, soft compound tires, etc. Get there in the morning and focus on yourself, not your car. That's what worked for me anyway.

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Don't worry about high temp brake fluid, soft compound tires, etc. Get there in the morning and focus on yourself, not your car. That's what worked for me anyway.

 

I agree. Your first time out you'll have enough to think about. Besides, learning on street tires will give you a better appreciation for better rubber and should help your smoothness with their added audio feedback.

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yes, tyres are good.

 

 

Start off with street tyres... whatever you have (as long as they are in good condition). Drive on those for about 6-8months or about 5-6 HPDEs.

 

Then go spend $250 and get some Azenis. They are the absolutely best tyre for under $80/ea.

 

Once you spent about 6 months or 3 or 4 HPDE's on those, then move into the Kumhos (V700s = victoracers, afaik).

 

Once you start racing for money or trophies, get Hoosiers. Otherwise, you'll just be wasting money and tyres.

 

You have to have a progressive climb into stickier tyres. I autocrossed on crappy nitto 450s and kumho supras for a good year and a half. Then I got myself some V700s after I got as good as I could on those lousy tyres.

 

 

hth

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  • Members

FYI There are also Ecsta V700s out there.

 

V700 Victoracers

V700 Ecstas

 

The Victorracers are stickier and with less tread, more of a track tire.

The Ecstas have more tread and are more streetable.

 

I only wish I could get azenis in the width I need

 

-mike

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Here is an alternate budget solution. Go to your local tire dealers and ask it hey have any used tires in your size. If you can find a good quality street tire with half of its tread life remaining, this will work good for your first few HPDE events. I used this method on my 280Z racecar when I went to my SCCA race schools. There is no point in burning up money in the form of tires when the most important thing that you're after is seat time and experience. You should be able to get good used tires for 10-20 bucks each. Another option is to ask racers for used R compound tires. I have a stack of 225/50/14 r compounds that I am done with but would work well for HPDE.

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Rizzolo, What rims are you running? What tire size are you looking at?

 

For the group, I am running my BFG RE730s (275/40-17s) on the street and on the track in my 96 Cobra. I was considering a set of the relatively new Nitto track tires (for a second set of Cobra R rims). Anyone have experience with them?

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I've been using the Nitto RII 275/40/17 for about a year now on my '94 Firebird for track days. Overall I like them. They don't grip as well as the Kumho Victo V700 but they stay sticky for more heat cycles than the Kumhos I believe. The Nittos are also an excellent rain tire and are very well behaved if you want to change to your track tires at home and drive to the track.

 

Last year I drove on them from Detroit to Mid-Ohio (about 180 miles each way), did a NASA HPDE and drove them back home. I then drove them to Gingerman (about 160 miles each way) a few weeks later and did a track day. In April I trailered my car to Mid Ohio and did another HPDE on them. I'd say they still have about half tread on them, and that's not including a few autoxs also. That's pretty good for their bargain basement price I think.

 

I hear they're finally expanding their line to 315/35/17 tires and as soon as they do I plan to buy a set. I have some 17x11 wheels just ready and waiting.

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lots of great replies!

 

to bmw 22: that’s a good idea. I am just frantically trying to get my car up and running so that I can get to the track. I will worry about new tires later. I have some old tread on the car that will make it for a session or two and should give a real good feeling of speed. So, at the track maybe I will find resources for R tires my size. the well has gotten pretty dry doing all the other stuff to the car, so I would not mind deferring the tire expense.

Do you have a friendly shop to mount and balance them for you? How do the shops behave if they aren’t selling you tires?

 

For Mystic-Cobra: I am running 14” wheels now (14x7 maybe), but I am looking for tires for the 16x8 rims that I have. I would like 225-50x16s all around or 245-45x16s for the rear.

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I've got my 14x6 on my 66 coupe now (from a ranchero) and I run 225/60-14 on them. This one hasn't seen the track. If I decide to go with the 65 coupe for my track car, I'll probably run 16s like you mentioned unless I learn more about 17s (bullit wheels) doing better in the mean time.

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Dave,

"I have some old tread on the car that will make it for a session or two and should give a real good feeling of speed" Be careful about what type of tires you use. Make sure they have the right spead rating. Check them real close for damage.(cuts, dry rot, nails, etc). Don't confuse "used" tires with old "tires". The difference will become clear under hard braking or cornering. Tire rubber can become junk if it is too old. It may look fine, but it's not. Instead of being flexible when it gets hot, it just chunks off.

 

You shouldn't have trouble finding a tire shop to mount them. I give mine to a tire shop employee who takes them to work, mounts them after his shift ends and then drops them off at my house. A case of beer is his motivation.

 

If you want some used R compound tires, you can have my used ones. I have Toyos and Kuhmos. 225/50 14. They fit perfectly on 14 x 7 rims. Pay shipping or come and get them and they are all yours. I think I have about 10 of them. I live in Pittsburgh, PA. They will work fine for schools and lapping days.

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that's good info about used vs old tires. i believe mine have gotten old waiting for me to finish the car. i'm almost there. i think that i am interested in the tires, but being in California, i'm not sure it will be worth it with the shipping. if we put them on the slow boat, it might be good.

 

i am going to double check my rim width to make sure that it is 7" and i will get back to you. any idea on shipping fees? i will try to check here.

 

thanks

dave

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I haven't a clue what shipping to CA would be. Go to the track for an SCCA national or regional event. Visit the tire vendors. They usually have plenty on used tires by the end of the day saturday that they will gladly give to you.

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  • 4 weeks later...

David,

 

Will you be driving in June at Sears Point? I'll be there on the 29th in my 67 coupe and a couple other friends of mine will be driving on the 28th (they both have 66s). We have been driving Open Track with the Shelby Club, but this will be our first time with NASA.

 

Even if you aren't driving, you should try to stop by and see if you can catch a ride with one of us (it helps to get a feel for the track).

 

Send me a PM if you might be able to make it. If you haven't already sprung for new rubber, you should talk to my friends: they've tried a few different street tires, as well as the Kumho Victoracers (guess which one they like best!).

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hey lance, i haven't been to the this forum for a while and didn't see your message. i would love to see you guys on that weekend. it's about 50/50 whether i will make it. this is strong incentive to get there. Oh, i have not been paying real close attention - is it Sat and Sun?

 

so which tire was it?

 

david

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David,

 

So far, both my friends are raving about the VictoRacers. One of them bought a used set for cheap and he's been very happy with them. The other guy put the same set on his car for a few sessions at Laguna Seca a couple months ago and he could not believe the difference.

 

I just put two on the front of my 67 and ordered two more for the rear (had to make sure they fit!). TireRack has them for cheap ($135 for 245/45/16's in my case). I cannot wait to get them on the track: you can feel the stickiness even when they are not hot.

 

In any event, you should come on up to Sears Point on Saturday or Sunday. My two friends will be there on Saturday and I'll be driving on Sunday. Even if you can't drive, it's still a ton of fun...

 

If you can't make that, you should check out the Shelby Club too: they have Open Track events and will host their big annual event, the Mini Nats, over the three day labor day weekend. Talk about some beautiful cars!! Check out their web site here:http://www.norcal-saac.org/.

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  • 5 weeks later...

Wow. At the bottom of the Forum's page it says I'm the most recent member. I'm a post virgin here, so be gentle, but be firm.

 

I'm looking at the HPDE at Willow late this month (track virgin as well, in cars anyway) and have tire questions.

 

In the tech specs they specify tires in "good shape". I'm currently running P-Zeros, and they have about 25-30% tread life left. From the posts above suggesting used tires, I think these would be perfect. I don't mind leaving trashing them on the track, but I want to be sure to fly through tech inspection.

 

They have no repairs, cuts, sidewall digs or nasty hopping characteristics, just getting a little thin on the tread.

 

On bikes, we always used fresh tires, at least 80%, so I'm a bit confused.

 

Thanks to all here, I've already learned a lot.

 

p

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Street tires with 80% or more tread tend to chunck off because the harder compound was made to with stand the heavy side loads and heat generated on the track. When you get down to 20-30% tread, there isn't as much rubber to flex and move therefore there isn't as much heat generated. Also, the sidewalls are forced to do a little more work when there is less tread. The down side to used street tires with 20-30% is rain. They will be junk in the rain.

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So, it seems from your post (I'm a little dense) I'll be OK with the tread-shy p-zeros, as long as it does not rain, right?

 

WillowSprings in July, I'll take that chance.

 

thanks for your input- anybody else?

 

p

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You'll actually do better with less tread (as long as you don't hit any water). I had the exact problem the earlier post described: chunks were coming off my tires that had near full tread. Racing slicks have no tread so they put more rubber on the ground (bigger contact patch). If you look at some race tires, they have sections with very shallow tread (Kumho VictoRacers, for example) so that you end up fairly quickly with a good portion of the tire with no tread.

 

As long as those tires are structurally sound (and they should be if you haven't really abused them), you should be fine.[/code]

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So, it seems from your post (I'm a little dense) I'll be OK with the tread-shy p-zeros, as long as it does not rain, right?

 

WillowSprings in July, I'll take that chance.

p

 

Yeah, you'll be fine. Tires in good shape basically means no cord showing in my experience. Just keep an eye on them throughout the day and make sure you don't cord any.

 

-Jim

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I just signed up here and this is my virgin post so kick ass gently

 

I agree that your first time or two or thre at these events it's best to concentrate on your driving skills and don't worry so much about tires and hardware. First HPDE I ever ran was in my '95 Supra at Pocono on RE730's a couple years ago. It was some of the greatest fun I ever had in a car and those tires worked pretty good for street tires.

 

Soon after that, I switched to Victoracers and have used those a few times at Watkins Glen and Pocono and compared to normal street tires, they are in another universe as far as traction. As a matter of fact, the traction was so awesome to me, that I just left my first set on for the street, which was great fun except in heavy wetness they are not good and they wore out pretty quickly, but it was fun while it lasted.

 

Recently, I got "showy" 18" wheels for the street and put V700's on for good traction. The V700's are not the same as Victoracers, they have somewhat more tread depth (although still a lot less than normal street tires) and are not as rounded on the tire's shoulder but I haven't used them long enough to know more differences. Reports from friends who use them and are running over 600rwhp suggest that the traction with V700's on the street is far superior to even the best dry traction street tires like BFG KD's and the "new compound maybe not yet available" Michellin Pilot Sport's which I hear are just arriving or coming our way soon, supposedly even better than the KD's.

 

Anybody have experience with the Pilot Sport Cup tires and how they compare to Victoracers?

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