tanjulio Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 OK; Honda Challenge Rule H1-H5 8.1 K states following: "....OBD0 equipped cars may update distributor and associated wiring to OBD1 or OBD2. This includes the use of a “jumper harness” to convert the OBD0 wiring of the stock ECU plugs to work with the OBD1 or OBD2 ECU..." I will run in H4 with a 1990 Civic Standard with D16a6 engine/ Si transmission swap ; SI cloned . NOW, MY QUESTION. 1: IF I update to an OBD1 Distributor & update to an OBD1 ECU I should use which injectors? CAN i use OBD1 injectors OR I MUST use OBDO injectors ? It may not seem to matter, but i need to know for wiring purposes. NOTE: there was NO mention of injectors, but a vague "associated wiring" and i know i must use original throttle body with original intake manifold. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILIKETODRIVE Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 OK; Honda Challenge Rule H1-H5 8.1 K states following: "....OBD0 equipped cars may update distributor and associated wiring to OBD1 or OBD2. This includes the use of a “jumper harness” to convert the OBD0 wiring of the stock ECU plugs to work with the OBD1 or OBD2 ECU..." I will run in H4 with a 1990 Civic Standard with D16a6 engine/ Si transmission swap ; SI cloned . NOW, MY QUESTION. 1: IF I update to an OBD1 Distributor & update to an OBD1 ECU I should use which injectors? CAN i use OBD1 injectors OR I MUST use OBDO injectors ? It may not seem to matter, but i need to know for wiring purposes. NOTE: there was NO mention of injectors, but a vague "associated wiring" and i know i must use original throttle body with original intake manifold. Thanks. The way I read it, it does not matter if you use OBD0 or OBD1 injectors. However, if I was using an OBD1 ECU I would rather use OBD1 injectors and ditch the resistor box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanjulio Posted June 19, 2012 Author Share Posted June 19, 2012 Yes; I would rather use OBD1 injectors but I want to be certain because i'm sure IF it is NOT legal, i'll get bumped to H2 and if that's the case; bump to H2 then i'd rather use the Z6 intake manifold.. anyone else have an opinion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GI8U2racing Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Looking through the rules, it reads that only Hybrid H1 engines have unrestricted injectors, never even says H2 can swap them. I could DQ 90% of the field in H2 for having aftermarket injectors if this is truly the case, but it's not. As far as I can see, you're clear to run any injector, the rules need to be updated though in my opinion. If not, I'm gonna bring some stock ITR injectors in case. The new rule/allowance should be 8.3 b and read something like "Injectors may be replaced with others of unrestricted origin, provided they that fit in an unmodified OEM fuel rail" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karl Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 I have been running honda injectors all along, why do you need more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterswarts Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 The way I have always read it is H2 has to use Honda injectors and fuel rails. There would be no reason you have to run OBD0 vs. OBD1. That is preference which electronics you want to run based on the ECU you choose. OBD2 cars can put in an OBD1 ECU with harness and run using all OBD2 components. When I ran H2, I had an H22 with OBD1 ECU running OBD2 injectors and Distributor. When I swapped to a JDM engine, I rewired for the OBD1 JDM Distributor but was still using the OBD2 injectors because I still had not wired in the resistor box. If folks are running aftermarket ones, then technically they are illegal as anything not explicitly allowed in the rules is denied. The only things allowed H2-H5 are fuel pumps and lines (which mainly are to support the install of a fuel cell) and adjustable regulators. The safe bet would be to use a Honda setup. I'm not sure I agree with unrestricted injectors in H2. It could give someone who built a motor to the limit the little extra edge by running larger non Honda ones over the stock Honda ones designed for the manifolds we are running for whatever engines. My 2c. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zul8r Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 if thats the case ill be dq'ing folks... play fair or dont show Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GI8U2racing Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I'm not sure I agree with unrestricted injectors in H2. It could give someone who built a motor to the limit the little extra edge by running larger non Honda ones over the stock Honda ones designed for the manifolds we are running for whatever engines. Right, because a larger injector = more power We just need to get this rule fixed, I was walking around the paddock this past weekend and more than half the H2 racers have aftermarket fuel rails and/or injectors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karl Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 it is not the rule's fault Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GI8U2racing Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 it is not the rule's fault Yes, but cars that have been tech'd for legality, especially including Meris's H2 B16A2 from 2010, had aftermarket injectors (RC 440's to be exact), when they were TRYING to find something illegal, and it passed. Rule just needs to be updated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karl Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Making it through tech does not make it legal, it just means that it was not caught. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucid Moments Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Making it through tech does not make it legal, it just means that it was not caught. Exactly. If he is illegal then protest him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zul8r Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 (edited) Edited July 17, 2012 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lo-bucK Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 we are working on clarifying this rule. please stand by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmeris Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 it is not the rule's fault Yes, but cars that have been tech'd for legality, especially including Meris's H2 B16A2 from 2010, had aftermarket injectors (RC 440's to be exact), when they were TRYING to find something illegal, and it passed. Rule just needs to be updated. The ghost of my 2010 B16a arises again. You're INCORRECT, I did NOT have RC 440cc injectors on my B16a. I had the RC 440cc in my B20vtec. 400cc injectors for an n/a B16 would be overkill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmeris Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 For the H2 engines that are allowed Type R or aftermarket cams (B16 and B20), using oem (including Type R) injectors will not suffice. If the engine is tuned correctly at maximum efficiency, the oem injectors will need to run at OVER 85% duty cycle. Running the duty cycle that high or higher can risk detrimental engine damage-especially on hot days or tracks with great elevation change where an increase in engine load is required to propel car up a hill. It would be in the best intrest to allow aftermarket injectors in H2...becuase it's cheaper to buy injectors than to buy a new engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zul8r Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 (edited) ... Edited July 17, 2012 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmeris Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 (edited) ... Edited July 25, 2012 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zul8r Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinG Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Meris - I'm sure that you already know this, but the '98+ Prelude injectors are 290 cc/min vs the 240 cc/min that the Integra runs...it's actually what I have in my street B18C5. Though it's almost always cheaper to purchase aftermarket injectors then used ones, which have to be flowed/cleaned/balanced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmeris Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Meris - I'm sure that you already know this, but the '98+ Prelude injectors are 290 cc/min vs the 240 cc/min that the Integra runs...it's actually what I have in my street B18C5. Though it's almost always cheaper to purchase aftermarket injectors then used ones, which have to be flowed/cleaned/balanced. Oh I completely overlooked that. If the new and revised rule specifically say that OEM injectors must be used, this would be a good solution....and a HUGE demand for these injectors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GI8U2racing Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Meris - I'm sure that you already know this, but the '98+ Prelude injectors are 290 cc/min vs the 240 cc/min that the Integra runs...it's actually what I have in my street B18C5. Though it's almost always cheaper to purchase aftermarket injectors then used ones, which have to be flowed/cleaned/balanced. Oh I completely overlooked that. If the new and revised rule specifically say that OEM injectors must be used, this would be a good solution....and a HUGE demand for these injectors Don't sweat it, the intent of the rules were to allow aftermarket injectors (my main concern) and probably fuel rail (we will see), should have the latest ammendment out shortly according to the RC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterswarts Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Hope the rule updates come out before Nationals. Otherwise there will be lots of controversy there. Side note - we still need the rule update on the side skirts as well from earlier this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterswarts Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 I just found a copy of the rules from 2007 I had on an external drive for my laptop. 10.2(f) has been lost over time. 10.2 H2 Limited Preparation Vehicles Only The following additional modifications are allowed: a) Any Honda/Acura USDM or JDM chassis my be used with a listed Limited Prep engine b) Any Honda/Acura master cylinder my be used c) Brake Calipers, Brake Rotors, and method of attachment are unrestricted d) Fasteners (e.g. bolts) anywhere in the engine e) Camshaft gears (including adjustable) are unrestricted f) Fuel Pumps, fuel Injectors, fuel rails are unrestricted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmeris Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Concerning the aftermarket fuel injector issue: Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:58 am we are working on clarifying this rule. please stand by. Concerning the aftermarket side skirt issue: Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:00 pm After talking this over with the other members of the HC Rules Committee (Spencer Anderson and Jeremy Croisset), we have all agreed that these will not be approved for use in HC competition. Also, please look for a Rules Addendum in the coming weeks in regards to side skirt replacement.Regards, Sam Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:47 pm clarification on this will be in the next ruleset revision Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:58 pm it should be out. i'll hit up JC and see whats going on. Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:44 pm sorry for the delay. i will inquire about the update. please hold. I think competitors are STILL awaiting official word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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