Discussion: NISMO Z in SpecZ

[scotts300]

There has been some talk on the Z forum about what is or isn't allowed in SpecZ. It seems Nissan and NASA have teamed up with a hope/desire to have all the Zs built "like" the NISMO Z, since the 9/10 wheel combo is the same as the NISMO and all NISMO aero (and Brembos) are allowed on all cars entered. My question, however, is - are the non-NISMO Zs allowed to take advantage of the chassis-reinforcement done to the NISMO-version of the 350Z.

 

"Nismo 350Z is much more than just the same book with a fancy new dust jacket. The frame is reinforced in a number of areas, thanks to an expansion of the welding area at the top of the A and B pillars and the addition of reinforcement bars and panels at the front and rear. The bulk of the benefit goes to the radiator core area, which is 160 percent as stiff as a standard 350Z. . . . As a result of either the body dampers or the chassis reinforcements—probably both—the Nismo 350Z is a very rigid car."

 

"The Z-car's chassis off the assembly line . . . welding the seams of the unit body by hand, a common practice in racing. This labor-intensive technique gives this car an added measure of structural rigidity compared to the customary spot-welded chassis of the other Zs that simply roll off the assembly line.

 

In addition, Autech has installed special Yamaha-designed mass dampers between the left and right frame rails of the unibody structure (one near the radiator core support and the other beneath the rear cargo area) to help counter the additional vibration that naturally accompanies a chassis stiffened not just by seam welding but also by the strut braces that are already a part of every 350Z chassis.

 

Sources:

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/new-cars/2008-nissan-nismo-350z/

 

http://www.insideline.com/nissan/350z/2007/follow-up-test-2007-nissan-nismo-350z.html

 

Discuss. . .

[Jeremy C.]

Scott,

There was much internal discussion on this topic and everything I found points to the fact that it "seems" that most of this was purely marketing hype and in reality, the two chassis's are so close to one another that there just isn't much between them. The way it was explained to me, it's not like one car is a "factory seam welded car" while the other isn't. It's a couple spots in the trunk area of the car and that's it.

I will have the Nismo Z at the National Championships this year and I invite anyone with any questions or concerns regarding this to look at the car I'm bringing and compare to theirs to see if there is any discernible difference because from what I can gather, there just isn't.

 

I hope that helps answer you question a little and I hope to see you at the event.

Jeremy

[Roca Z]

Scott,

There was much internal discussion on this topic and everything I found points to the fact that it "seems" that most of this was purely marketing hype and in reality, the two chassis's are so close to one another that there just isn't much between them. The way it was explained to me, it's not like one car is a "factory seam welded car" while the other isn't. It's a couple spots in the trunk area of the car and that's it.

I will have the Nismo Z at the National Championships this year and I invite anyone with any questions or concerns regarding this to look at the car I'm bringing and compare to theirs to see if there is any discernible difference because from what I can gather, there just isn't.

 

I hope that helps answer you question a little and I hope to see you at the event.

Jeremy

 

I like this guy ^^^^ I'm getting my Nismo 1101 ready for 2014 season... if the world doesn't end lol

[Palmettogasman]

This may be a bit premature after but after watching the Nats it appears that the Nismo's are going to be hard to beat. The first few laps (I watched speedcast) showcased great driving by the Z field but it seemed that the Nismo cars were faster. I just finished my 2004 Spec Z build this week and now wonder if it will be competitive without the $$$ for the OEM v3 body kit and higher HP motor. Anybody know if the older Z's at Nats came in close to the #3100 lbs that is supposed to help those of us that are HP challenged?

BTW this is not to take anything away from the Nismo drivers, those guys drove a great race.

[whis9]

This may be a bit premature after but after watching the Nats it appears that the Nismo's are going to be hard to beat. The first few laps (I watched speedcast) showcased great driving by the Z field but it seemed that the Nismo cars were faster. I just finished my 2004 Spec Z build this week and now wonder if it will be competitive without the $$$ for the OEM v3 body kit and higher HP motor. Anybody know if the older Z's at Nats came in close to the #3100 lbs that is supposed to help those of us that are HP challenged?

BTW this is not to take anything away from the Nismo drivers, those guys drove a great race.

 

 

One of the guys told me they are alittle over a 100lbs over weight and not sure how to get down to the 3100lbs needed per the rules

[velocitymotorsports]

We finished 3rd at nasa nationals this year in a 2003 and started on pole. We dynoed well below what we should have been at. The car was 100 lbs heavy yet we still had a good showing due to david dirks being a great driver and having the car setup dialed in. We ran without the body kit to showcase to other perspective spec z racers that you dont need the body kit. With the lower cost of the early platform it really does show that you dont need the latest engine and chassis to be competitive. We look forward to the future of the rule changes. Thanks for the good hard clean racing Jeremy.

[jmark350z]

In a spec series I would think the driver can overcome alot of things but given equal drivers I would think a true Nismo 350Z would be a better base to build from and faster.

[dcazin]

I was wondering this same thing, I as slowly wrap up my 03 build, will I ever be competitive with the Nismo.

[obzezzed350]

Its the first year of the series. I would suspect that if significant advantages present themselves and the appropriate data analysis was performed, that rule modifications would me made to level the field. Just my two cents...

[esr]

I feel they should classify the nismo on its own, lets give it some type of a penalty even if it is 10 lbs at the moment, but at least this way it can be more easily revised in the future.

 

I have done track days on my track version 03, which has a lot of upgrades and had to work hard to sty with the nismos. Seems that they just work better on the track. I believe they had the same engine as mine.

[obzezzed350]

I feel they should classify the nismo on its own, lets give it some type of a penalty even if it is 10 lbs at the moment, but at least this way it can be more easily revised in the future.

 

I have done track days on my track version 03, which has a lot of upgrades and had to work hard to sty with the nismos. Seems that they just work better on the track. I believe they had the same engine as mine.

 

If its a real nismo(not just the body parts), then it has the VQ35HR, not the VQ35DE like your 03

[esr]

I feel they should classify the nismo on its own, lets give it some type of a penalty even if it is 10 lbs at the moment, but at least this way it can be more easily revised in the future.

 

I have done track days on my track version 03, which has a lot of upgrades and had to work hard to sty with the nismos. Seems that they just work better on the track. I believe they had the same engine as mine.

 

If its a real nismo(not just the body parts), then it has the VQ35HR, not the VQ35DE like your 03

even the earlier nismos?

[laze1]

I say add 500 Lbs "success weight" to the Nismo

[obzezzed350]

There was only one Nismo version, 2007 - 2008.

[esr]

I say add 500 Lbs "success weight" to the Nismo

I say 501 lbs

[Jeremy C.]

You guys crack me up!

There was a ton of data collected at the Championship event and NASA will work very hard to ensure that each of the year models classed in spec Z has an equal chance at winning! As it stands now, things are pretty close, but some adjustments are to be expected in any class.

 

It was a fantastic race and this series is just so much fun!

It was awesome running with Dirks in the race for so many laps. What a great race. Thanks for running such a clean race David. I had a blast racing with everyone at the Nationals.

[dmdirks]

You guys crack me up!

There was a ton of data collected at the Championship event and NASA will work very hard to ensure that each of the year models classed in spec Z has an equal chance at winning! As it stands now, things are pretty close, but some adjustments are to be expected in any class.

 

It was a fantastic race and this series is just so much fun!

It was awesome running with Dirks in the race for so many laps. What a great race. Thanks for running such a clean race David. I had a blast racing with everyone at the Nationals.

 

Hey Jeremy,

 

It was great racing with you also! (Well, at least until I screwed up! )

 

These cars are such a blast to drive. Sure, there are a few kinks that need to be worked out. But overall I was very happy that my '03 could run competitively with the late Nismo cars. Looking forward to building this class!!

[esr]

You guys crack me up!

There was a ton of data collected at the Championship event and NASA will work very hard to ensure that each of the year models classed in spec Z has an equal chance at winning! As it stands now things are pretty close, but some adjustments are to be expected in any class.

 

Hi David,

So in your mind what made it so equal?

Was it that your car was lighter than the nismo? Can you tell us how much lighter?

Was Jeremy's car right at weight or over the weight?

I have driven both an 03 and a hr an the hr feels light it has 2 engines under the hood?

I am just courious, since I am building an 03.

I think at some point nissan should put out some cash and do some back to back testing with 1 driver in all 3 cars. A pro driver provably be best.

Glad to hear you guys had a great time

[dmdirks]

So in your mind what made it so equal?

Was it that your car was lighter than the nismo? Can you tell us how much lighter?

Was Jeremy's car right at weight or over the weight?

I have driven both an 03 and a hr an the hr feels light it has 2 engines under the hood?

I am just courious, since I am building an 03.

I think at some point nissan should put out some cash and do some back to back testing with 1 driver in all 3 cars. A pro driver provably be best.

Glad to hear you guys had a great time

 

I didn't exactly say they were "equal", but the cars were close enough to make a very good race.

 

I weighed in at 3220 after the main race (120lbs over), and I believe Jeremy was ~3380 (80lbs over). I dyno'ed at 249hp and Jeremy was at the limit for the '08. The difference the power helped him on the front and back straights, however it wasn't enough to make the pass on the outside. The corners were a different story though. We were pretty much dead even and in some areas I was slightly faster.

 

NASA installed Traqmates in at least three cars (including mine and Jeremy's) on pre-grid just before the main race. It has been expressed that NASA will make every effort to ensure an even playing field. We will just have to wait and see what happens!

[esr]

[Good info,

Thanks

Will you be able to get your car to minim weight?

How did the brakes hold up?

From your experience, should any adjustments to the rules be made right now?

 

 

=dmdirks]

So in your mind what made it so equal?

Was it that your car was lighter than the nismo? Can you tell us how much lighter?

Was Jeremy's car right at weight or over the weight?

I have driven both an 03 and a hr an the hr feels light it has 2 engines under the hood?

I am just courious, since I am building an 03.

I think at some point nissan should put out some cash and do some back to back testing with 1 driver in all 3 cars. A pro driver provably be best.

Glad to hear you guys had a great time

 

I didn't exactly say they were "equal", but the cars were close enough to make a very good race.

 

I weighed in at 3220 after the main race (120lbs over), and I believe Jeremy was ~3380 (80lbs over). I dyno'ed at 249hp and Jeremy was at the limit for the '08. The difference the power helped him on the front and back straights, however it wasn't enough to make the pass on the outside. The corners were a different story though. We were pretty much dead even and in some areas I was slightly faster.

 

NASA installed Traqmates in at least three cars (including mine and Jeremy's) on pre-grid just before the main race. It has been expressed that NASA will make every effort to ensure an even playing field. We will just have to wait and see what happens!

[dmdirks]

Good info,

Thanks

Will you be able to get your car to minim weight?

How did the brakes hold up?

From your experience, should any adjustments to the rules be made right now?

 

I will not be able to get my '03 to minimum weight. The general consensus was that 3100lbs will be difficult to achieve with a 200lb driver.

 

The brakes held up, however there were issues with the fronts getting too hot and the ABS behaving unexpectedly. For example, my ABS always seemed to kick in only at T2, and if you watched the SpeedcastTV replay, that is why I ended up "playing in the sandbox" briefly.

 

These were two of several topics of discussion at Nationals between our National Series Director, Nissan, BFG and the drivers. I am confident that we will see a proactive approach to fine tuning our rule set before the 2013 season. As Jeremy touched on in a different thread, NASA is very motivated to make this a BIG series... And I'm looking forward to it!!

[FastNotFurious]

Still finding it hard to see how you get an '03 down to 3100 (sans driver) as you did David while "only changing what the SPEC says you can change - nothing else".

 

The only things I have left I could change are remove the A/C (which I will probably do AFTER I get my cool shirt system) and the heater core - and I DOUBT that will get me even to where you are at now.

 

The answers in the forum so far seem pretty clear that no cutting of speaker mount area, no mod to battery size/weight/location and the like will make it tough (even though I've seen several cars who have done this). Not sure how consistent "conformance" to these interpretations will be.

 

I even saw a guy run as SpecZ with StopTech brakes, large aftermarket aluminum rear wing and who knows what other mods and he was given a track record (since he was the first "SpecZ" to run that track)...

 

Being my first time building a race car (or racing for that matter) I'm still trying to figure out if the rules are rules or merely "guidelines".

 

In the interest of fair competition I take them as rules - I just hope everyone else will otherwise what's the point of a spec class?

 

Just tryin' to learn the ropes - reality vs. theory.

 

I'm glad the Nismo editions are included but my time on track against them, makes me think they do have an edge. But I like the cars and this whole class - SpecZ is the reason I am getting into this.

 

Still excited about 2013 - I'll be done my build very soon.

[Jagerz]

I even saw a guy run as SpecZ with StopTech brakes, large aftermarket aluminum rear wing and who knows what other mods and he was given a track record (since he was the first "SpecZ" to run that track)...

 

This is disappointing to hear... I would hate to spend a whole weekends worth of money and time to race against that.

[laze1]

Guys, that car ran in Spec Z @ VIR since there was not another car in the class and the MA group does not have a Spec Z Regional Director that I know of. That driver now knows what he needs to do to be Spec Z legal in 2013...

 

So you don't have to worry about that issue.

[FastNotFurious]

Hopefully the track record won't stand as a SpecZ time...