sperkins Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 At this point there's probably not a reason for anyone to post in this thread. It's become a waiting game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrgordonsenior Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 At this point there's probably not a reason for anyone to post in this thread. It's become a waiting game. OK that's reason enough for me to join the party.... I blew my little 3.4 motor this weekend and have our next NASA race in 2 weeks. Would love to build for the 8.01 multiplier if that's where we're going as that would bring me closer to the limits of GTS4 ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra4B Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 Current VIR registration is a perfect example of why STR should be folded back into ST. FWIW I've never seen any of these STR entrants at previous events. Carl Eckert Racing STR2 Thunder Roadster 5427666 Darrel Hamilton Racing STR2 600 Racing Thunder Roadster 3634918 DHI Motorsports Mike Rea Racing STR2 600 Racing Thunder Roadster 9347685 Song-Yih Tu Racing STR2 Inex Thunder Roadster 2589175 POS Motorsports Anne Keller Racing Super Touring 2 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 2516047 Breasticles George Winkler Racing Super Touring 2 Ford Boss 302S 6671019 Winkler Automotive Service Center Divided there is no contingency for anyone. Together you've got 6 people in ST2. Having 6 will inevitably get some fence sitters to move which gets you 7+ which gets word of mouth/excitement going again and people start to put forth the effort/expense to show up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brkntrxn Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 Those are SE Thunder Roadsters that are PTA legal but run in their own TR class in SE events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falcon Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Current VIR registration is a perfect example of why STR should be folded back into ST. FWIW I've never seen any of these STR entrants at previous events. Carl Eckert Racing STR2 Thunder Roadster 5427666 Darrel Hamilton Racing STR2 600 Racing Thunder Roadster 3634918 DHI Motorsports Mike Rea Racing STR2 600 Racing Thunder Roadster 9347685 Song-Yih Tu Racing STR2 Inex Thunder Roadster 2589175 POS Motorsports Anne Keller Racing Super Touring 2 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 2516047 Breasticles George Winkler Racing Super Touring 2 Ford Boss 302S 6671019 Winkler Automotive Service Center Divided there is no contingency for anyone. Together you've got 6 people in ST2. Having 6 will inevitably get some fence sitters to move which gets you 7+ which gets word of mouth/excitement going again and people start to put forth the effort/expense to show up. Couldn't the ST2 cars go to STR2? Is STR2 eligible for the Hoosier contingency? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 The Roadsters are multi-class legal and will move en mass to wherever they can run in Lightning. They are not crazy about being on track with 160mph 4000lb cars, and I can't say I blame them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drivinhardz06 Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Couldn't the ST2 cars go to STR2? Is STR2 eligible for the Hoosier contingency? yes but the TR's will go wherever the other guys don't go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Graber Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Give the "R" cars a penalty and combine the ST and STR cars back into one class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra4B Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Give the "R" cars a penalty and combine the ST and STR cars back into one class. Yep... this is what I've been saying for a long time now. This is how it used to be. I've been told that there is no good power/weight mod factor that works well for all cars on all tracks. They're concerned about someone buying a TransAm tube chassis car and dominating. Again... "fixing" a problem that doesn't exist while exacerbating one that does (low car counts). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kubs Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Yep... this is what I've been saying for a long time now. This is how it used to be. I've been told that there is no good power/weight mod factor that works well for all cars on all tracks. They're concerned about someone buying a TransAm tube chassis car and dominating. Again... "fixing" a problem that doesn't exist while exacerbating one that does (low car counts). How much better could a trans am car be at the ST2 power level to need more of an adjustment? I would think one adjustment to cover all the cars would work, and I agree with you that it will help car counts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted October 2, 2012 Author National Staff Share Posted October 2, 2012 Sorry guys, but we have plenty of data showing that you are not correct. There are too many variables on the "tube-frame" side. So, ultimately, either many of the tube-frame guys will not join you because they will feel you have a big advantage due to their added Mod Factor, or you guys will get destroyed and start crying about what a huge mistake "we" made by allowing stock cars to compete against you. However, what I can tell you is that the survey went very well, and we are in the process of finalizing the changes for 2013. I think that we have come up with a lot of great ideas that the large majority of our drivers will appreciate. I'm hoping that we can release the details on this Forum within a few days. That would allow enough detailed information for builds to continue/start. We would then try and get the actual ST Rules out by the end of next week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra4B Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Why not allow GT-type tube chassis cars to compete then? I.e. stockcars, Panozes, replica Cobras etc. etc.? You keep saying stockcars will clean our clocks. A similar power/weight stockcar isn't going to beat up on my prepped C5 Corvette... no way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbodleimages Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 tube frame stock cars, rolex gt cars, and trans am cars have construction advantages. simple placement of the engine and drive train create balance that a street car body cant compete with. and thats just the first step. engines on those cars are set back significantly to create center balance for instance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obzezzed350 Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Why not allow GT-type tube chassis cars to compete then? I.e. stockcars, Panozes, replica Cobras etc. etc.? You keep saying stockcars will clean our clocks. A similar power/weight stockcar isn't going to beat up on my prepped C5 Corvette... no way. I think you're crazy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra4B Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 tube frame stock cars, rolex gt cars, and trans am cars have construction advantages. simple placement of the engine and drive train create balance that a street car body cant compete with. and thats just the first step. engines on those cars are set back significantly to create center balance for instance. So what? Look at who's running out there and what the records for each class are. The ST-2 record holders are all C5 Corvettes. People like Wally and Danny Popp run with ST-1 cars all the time and turn very similar lap times. My point is that right now we have car count issues. My C5 already has the entire engine behind the front axle centerline and my transmission is in the back right behind the driver. Why not allow GT-type tube chassis cars to compete then? I.e. stockcars, Panozes, replica Cobras etc. etc.? You keep saying stockcars will clean our clocks. A similar power/weight stockcar isn't going to beat up on my prepped C5 Corvette... no way. I think you're crazy Nope... just look at lap times. Sure a stock car may be easier on consumables, but the lap times speak for themselves. I may be a broken record, but car counts are the issue. As a C5 racer I only have one class to run in and that's ST now. I see this class dwindling in my region whereas there used to be 8-12 cars in class every weekend. You let the FFR cobras and Panoz cars etc. etc. run back in ST and the car counts will pick up. Or... let me run in AI with my C5 and I'll have people to race against. EDIT - I don't know about some of you, but I'd rather be mid-pack in a 15 car field that have a top-prepped class-leader in a 3-5 car field. That's my thinking behind all of this. So what if I can't quite keep up with some crazy creation... it gives me something to work toward and I have people to run against. No... I don't want to sell my car and go race something slow like a BMW or Miata. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 I know GTS has each level with a mix of tube frame, semi tube frame, and production frame cars at different hp/weight levels - has there been grumbling behind the scenes about their correction factors not working? I can see how something completely and utterly purpose-built maybe being too far out there to equalize properly, but I wonder if there's a way to get stuff like the Panoz, FFR, and other look-alike and basically somewhat-production based type chassis back into regular ST? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drivinhardz06 Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 I'm hoping that we can release the details on this Forum within a few days. That would allow enough detailed information for builds to continue/start. awesome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PushinTheLimit Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 tube frame stock cars, rolex gt cars, and trans am cars have construction advantages. simple placement of the engine and drive train create balance that a street car body cant compete with. and thats just the first step. engines on those cars are set back significantly to create center balance for instance. So what? Look at who's running out there and what the records for each class are. The ST-2 record holders are all C5 Corvettes. People like Wally and Danny Popp run with ST-1 cars all the time and turn very similar lap times. My point is that right now we have car count issues. My C5 already has the entire engine behind the front axle centerline and my transmission is in the back right behind the driver. Why not allow GT-type tube chassis cars to compete then? I.e. stockcars, Panozes, replica Cobras etc. etc.? You keep saying stockcars will clean our clocks. A similar power/weight stockcar isn't going to beat up on my prepped C5 Corvette... no way. I think you're crazy Nope... just look at lap times. Sure a stock car may be easier on consumables, but the lap times speak for themselves. I may be a broken record, but car counts are the issue. As a C5 racer I only have one class to run in and that's ST now. I see this class dwindling in my region whereas there used to be 8-12 cars in class every weekend. You let the FFR cobras and Panoz cars etc. etc. run back in ST and the car counts will pick up. Or... let me run in AI with my C5 and I'll have people to race against. EDIT - I don't know about some of you, but I'd rather be mid-pack in a 15 car field that have a top-prepped class-leader in a 3-5 car field. That's my thinking behind all of this. So what if I can't quite keep up with some crazy creation... it gives me something to work toward and I have people to run against. No... I don't want to sell my car and go race something slow like a BMW or Miata. I've seen more complaints from the Panoz guys about not getting to run with ST2 anymore than being upset about the mod factor to run ST2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbodleimages Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 ive seen danny popp's lap times in an st2 cars. yes he is running with st1 cars. its all relative, however. if danny popp was driving a quality st1 car, no st2 car including danny's could keep up....unless, say....lewis hamilton or jeff gordon were driving it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra4B Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 My point is that a similar power/weight tube chassis car (stock car, Panoz, FFR Cobra replica, etc. etc. ) at 8.7:1 is not going to beat up on a well prepp'd and well driven Mustang/Porsche/Corvette etc. etc. All it does is dilute the car counts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhoward1 Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Just as a point of reference an FFR in what would be ST2 trim ran a 2:01:0x time this past week at Watkins Glen, and ran a 2:05 at VIR. This is right in line with the ST2 Corvettes, and shows the strengths of both cars on different types of tracks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbodleimages Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 2:05 is fast. better than i can do for sure, but didnt danny run a :58 or something at vir in an st2 car? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bnjmn Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 2:05 is slower than the TTA record at VIR, let alone into ST2 range. 2:01 at WGI is 2sec faster than the ST2 record. Are you referring to John George? I thought he was in some Caterham-type creation this past weekend (which I assume is where the 2:01 came from). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drivinhardz06 Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 no st2 car including danny's could keep up....unless, say....lewis hamilton or jeff gordon were driving it. Do you not know that Lewis Hamilton wears RAFT pajamas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhoward1 Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 2:05 is slower than the TTA record at VIR, let alone into ST2 range.2:01 at WGI is 2sec faster than the ST2 record. Are you referring to John George? I thought he was in some Caterham-type creation this past weekend (which I assume is where the 2:01 came from). No, he was in the #85 FFRC car. It is the same setup as the 2012 challenge cars but with added aero and a better trans. My guess is with the new rear a few items he should eb able to do sub 2:02's at VIR now. Not as fast as the ST2 cars on big tracks, but quick on the tighter technical tracks. I think having different types of cars faster at different tracks is a good thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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