TTC or TTD for my Miata?

[hustler]

I got tired of the turbo drama and all the stuff that comes along with a turbo Miata and TTB, as it relates to my wallet, so I just swapped in a ~150-180whp NA engine. I'd like to get down into TTD and I'm dying to know if I can make it. I don't know the final weight of the car yet and I'm taking the car to the dyno fairly soon for tuning, I predict 160whp. With a ball-park weight of 2275lb with driver and 150-170whp, what base-class should I be closest to?

 

I don't really know how to build the car out for the class. Do I start with a more firm weight number or can you guys point me in the right direction? I will definitely need a dyno-classification.

 

Thanks.

[kbrew8991]

1.) Do you plan on changing the rest of the mods you've got?

 

- or -

 

2.) Or are you dead-set to stay on say for example on 225 NT-01s, splitter, 7pts in suspension, etc?

 

 

 

 

In the first example you can just deal with whatever reclass you get back (within reason) and still make the class as you can juggle the remaining mods package to fit the class. Take stuff off, add it on, whatever. Easy to do.

 

In the second example you'll need to effectively back-in to what your reclass needs to be (ex TTE**, or TTD, or whatever). Then you'll have to decide what variable to juggle (weight or whp) to get there, and send that all in to Greg.

 

Ex.) lets say you want to stay at 160whp and TTD* because you don't want to retune from your 158whp or whatever it ends up at plus a comfortable margin for error and you know TTD* just barely lets you stay in TTD competiton class once you total up the rest of your stuff (tires, susp, etc).

 

You'd email in to Greg "Hey I have X year Miata at 160whp and want to stay as TTD* base class, what's my minimum weight". And when you get the number back it's either sawzall things off the car or bolt-weights on and eat lard time. Or if you'd rather play tuner and stick with the weight you're at - do that.

 

 

also hopefully some Miatae peeps will share some of their numbers they're at (whp, weight, base class) so you can ballpark guess at where you might end up. Migth be some stuff on Miata.net too..?

[hustler]

1.) Do you plan on changing the rest of the mods you've got?

 

- or -

 

2.) Or are you dead-set to stay on say for example on 225 NT-01s, splitter, 7pts in suspension, etc?

 

 

 

 

In the first example you can just deal with whatever reclass you get back (within reason) and still make the class as you can juggle the remaining mods package to fit the class. Take stuff off, add it on, whatever. Easy to do.

 

In the second example you'll need to effectively back-in to what your reclass needs to be (ex TTE**, or TTD, or whatever). Then you'll have to decide what variable to juggle (weight or whp) to get there, and send that all in to Greg.

 

Ex.) lets say you want to stay at 160whp and TTD* because you don't want to retune from your 158whp or whatever it ends up at plus a comfortable margin for error and you know TTD* just barely lets you stay in TTD competiton class once you total up the rest of your stuff (tires, susp, etc).

 

You'd email in to Greg "Hey I have X year Miata at 160whp and want to stay as TTD* base class, what's my minimum weight". And when you get the number back it's either sawzall things off the car or bolt-weights on and eat lard time. Or if you'd rather play tuner and stick with the weight you're at - do that.

 

 

also hopefully some Miatae peeps will share some of their numbers they're at (whp, weight, base class) so you can ballpark guess at where you might end up. Migth be some stuff on Miata.net too..?

 

Unless another affordable tire hits the market, I'm staying on NT-01 because I live in abject poverty and saving for a mortgage.

 

I have ~15 points with mods and I'd rather lower power to meet the class, that's no problem because I can tune to whatever I want within reason. I'm pretty dead-set on my current mod list because the parts all serve a function of reliability (6-speed & real brakes) or provide a major increase in performance (LSD & suspension set-up).

 

I'm cool with eating lard.

 

I haven't done a ton of searching because I discovered a crack turbo manifold on Sunday, then rounded-up parts and swapped engines in three nights after work, and going to the dyno tonight; guilty as charged and sleep deprived. I feel like I deserve a trophy for this.

 

Thanks for the advice.

[kbrew8991]

Ooops, forgot that your base tire size will change with a reclass. Since I usually help people with what-ifs using my excel sheet that I didn't use on you I forgot, doh!

 

So we're probably looking at your mods list as

+2 calipers

+ ___ suspension

+ ___ for whatever

+7 for NT01 compound

+ or - ___ for width at ___ base class.

 

I can help finish the "back into your desired reclass stuff" if I know the tire info

 

Probably looking at a no-star or 1-star base class depending (ie TTC or TTC* to end up in TTC, etc) off the top of my head though.

[hustler]

So we're probably looking at your mods list as

+8 tires (225 NT-01)

+6 drivetrain

+7 suspension

+2 brakes

+3 aero

I miscalculated from my old TTB base tire number.

 

Thanks again. I fear I'm looking at TTC.

[kbrew8991]

for TTC base class aiming to stay in TTC

+0 net on tires (+7 for NT-01, -7 for 225s vs 255 base width)

+18 for everything else

so you'd have to be TTC-no-star base on that one, and you'd have 1pt to spend. TTC* puts you over.

 

for TTD base class aiming to stay in TTD

+3 net on tires (+7 for NT-01, -4 for 225s vs 245 base width)

+18 for everything else

= 21pts, need to shave something off the car if TTD base class if you wanted to stay in TTD, and obviously stars won't help you. Going to 205s would be the easy button since it changes your pts total to 15pts (tires go from +3 net to -3 net) and you'd be fine with plenty to spend, maybe a wing or something to round it out.

 

for TTE** base class aming for TTD

+6 net on tires (+7 for NT-01, -1 for 225s vs 235 base width)

+18 for everything else

+14 from asterix

= 38, so TTD with 1 pt to spend. TTE** might be kinda porky and/or flattened out power curve...? Or could be right in the ballpark. I'd have to ask around some to see.

[hustler]

If I were to start taking testosterone injections and drive like a man for the first time in my life, could a Miata be competitive in TTC?

 

I guess it's time to get the car on scales and get some dyno numbers. Thanks for the help on this.

[kbrew8991]

I got my eyes crossed on the 225 vs 205s in TTD combo, so see edit.

 

If a Mazdaspeed Miata can win PTA Nationally, I think a Miata can win anywhere if built and driven well

[hustler]

The NASATX results page does not show classing on MyLaps. Does anyone show up for TTC or TTD with us from The Lord's Republic of Texas? The last thing I want is a "participation trophy". I want to hunt and kill.

[kbrew8991]

mylaps won't show class info in merges (big bug in their sys that they won't fix), so look for results PDFs in the Texas section / website if you want an event-by-event breakdown.

 

Also, full points listing for this year (count people listed in each class for an idea):

viewtopic.php?f=26&t=57828

 

TTC - 8, TTD - 4.

 

Regulars in TTC are Todd with the stock yellow Evo on street tires, Tomas Hoyle with the GTO and Norm Wilhelm with a bugeye WRX, Regulars in TTD is just me when Laura lets me use her RX8 and sometimes David Neary until he fixes his CMC racecar

[Rob S.]

There's a Miata signed up in TTC for the Championships so keep an eye on the results. It's the only non S2K in TTC.

[kbrew8991]

dang, no E36 M3s or other cars like that? Or is it just because there's a light turnout for Nationals period?

[kbrew8991]

also, with more TTC meat out there I might just have to buy big fatty race tires & wheels for Laura's RX8 and come play too....

 

it only ran a 2:05.0XX on TWS 2.9CW 100% bone stock while I picked my nose.... there's at least 1 second out there just in upgrading race pads & fluid

[jvetthead]

If I were to start taking testosterone injections and drive like a man for the first time in my life, could a Miata be competitive?

 

Yes, but the testo mod is rough on rear tires... works tho

[vpnwiz]

A ~160hp NA (naturally aspirated...) Miata can easily win TTD/PTD at Miller next year. Ask me how I know.

 

A ~160hp s/c NA ('92 ) Miata could win TTD/PTD at Mid Ohio this year but it won't be there. Again -- ^^^

 

Your target should be a base of D at ~2380lbs. I don't know what you are carrying over from B but you should class out in D with 2-3 points to spare if you start from scratch. If you do it right.

 

If you can drive pretty good and have more time than money (well... money never hurts either) it's really not too hard. You just need to focus both in the right places. PM me if you want more info on what it takes. My championship-winning Miata is in my garage with a bent tub waiting to be cut apart and scrapped and I'm in the mood to give away info so a fellow Miata driver wins D next year.

 

If I were to start taking testosterone injections and drive like a man for the first time in my life, could a Miata be competitive?

Yes, but the testo mod is rough on rear tires... works tho

If your alignment is correct rear tire wear is not an issue. The biggest problem is the hole you need to cut in the seat once you figure out what the car is capable of.

[TurboShortBus]

As a reference point only, there are base reclasses for Miatas here in the Florida region that look like this:

 

1993 Miata, supercharged

161 rwhp / 2395 lbs MCW, TTD base class

185 rwhp / 2395 lbs MCW, TTC base class

 

1999 Miata, turbocharged

176 rwhp / 2570 lbs MCW, TTD* base class

181 rwhp / 2600 lbs MCW, TTD* base class

204 rwhp / 2570 lbs MCW, TTC* base class

213 rwhp / 2570 lbs MCW, TTC** base class

223 rwhp / 2570 lbs MCW, TTB base class

 

Again, note that these are for reference only and do not apply to any other cars, similar or otherwise.

 

Mark

[ILIKETODRIVE]

There's a Miata signed up in TTC for the Championships so keep an eye on the results. It's the only non S2K in TTC.

Emilio from 949. I wouldn't be surprised if he won.

[Joshua]

Late to this party, but this information may be helpful.

My 1993 Miata was dyno re-classes by Greg with the following requirements:

TTD 161rwhp at 2395 lbs OR

TTC 185 rwhp at 2395 lbs

 

These numbers should be good for NA Miatas (1990-1997), and I would think the NBs (1999-2004) would have either less power or more weight.

 

It's a very fun car to drive in these classes and has been reasonably competitive.

 

*edit* -same car as Mark mentions above.

[D_Eclipse9916]

dang, no E36 M3s or other cars like that? Or is it just because there's a light turnout for Nationals period?

 

At least one is in GTS2 and cant afford to double dip this year

[hustler]

There's a Miata signed up in TTC for the Championships so keep an eye on the results. It's the only non S2K in TTC.

That's Emilio Cervantes/949. That car is on "another level" compared to mine. I know, "build it to the class".

[hustler]

A ~160hp NA (naturally aspirated...) Miata can easily win TTD/PTD at Miller next year. Ask me how I know.

 

A ~160hp s/c NA ('92 ) Miata could win TTD/PTD at Mid Ohio this year but it won't be there. Again -- ^^^

 

Your target should be a base of D at ~2380lbs. I don't know what you are carrying over from B but you should class out in D with 2-3 points to spare if you start from scratch. If you do it right.

 

If you can drive pretty good and have more time than money (well... money never hurts either) it's really not too hard. You just need to focus both in the right places. PM me if you want more info on what it takes. My championship-winning Miata is in my garage with a bent tub waiting to be cut apart and scrapped and I'm in the mood to give away info so a fellow Miata driver wins D next year.

 

If I were to start taking testosterone injections and drive like a man for the first time in my life, could a Miata be competitive?

Yes, but the testo mod is rough on rear tires... works tho

If your alignment is correct rear tire wear is not an issue. The biggest problem is the hole you need to cut in the seat once you figure out what the car is capable of.

I'm taking unnecessary points for front fascia, 6-speed, and brakes so that's adding 8-points that I probably need to kill. I really need to keep that stuff in the car so I should probably focus on getting all the power I can out of the engine and going to TTC. I need better injectors and a better computer to get there.

[cucamelsmd15]

I'm taking unnecessary points for front fascia, 6-speed, and brakes so that's adding 8-points that I probably need to kill. I really need to keep that stuff in the car so I should probably focus on getting all the power I can out of the engine and going to TTC. I need better injectors and a better computer to get there.

 

The sixer probably isnt getting you an advantage and with less power, you should be able to get by easily on the stock 1.8 brakes (assuming your car is a 94+) with good ducting. The front fascia though? Im not sure about that one, I do know that even with 205's, they might as well be a sail on the front end of the car. If I had the points to play with, Id probably keep it making sure not to trample the splitter points in the process (i.e. no splitter).

[hustler]

I'm taking unnecessary points for front fascia, 6-speed, and brakes so that's adding 8-points that I probably need to kill. I really need to keep that stuff in the car so I should probably focus on getting all the power I can out of the engine and going to TTC. I need better injectors and a better computer to get there.

 

The sixer probably isnt getting you an advantage and with less power, you should be able to get by easily on the stock 1.8 brakes (assuming your car is a 94+) with good ducting. The front fascia though? Im not sure about that one, I do know that even with 205's, they might as well be a sail on the front end of the car. If I had the points to play with, Id probably keep it making sure not to trample the splitter points in the process (i.e. no splitter).

 

6-speed lasts a lot longer than the 5-speed and the gearing is tighter because of it. I know I should switch back to stock brakes, but I love these huge, cheap brakes...they'll probably stay. I have the RB bumper and it made a notable difference in front grip above 80mph.

 

The car only made 158whp (shitty computer, injectors, batch fuel). I never got a chance to weigh it unfortunately. I still think TTD is a stretch. My car is basically a copy of the 949 94R street car with a little less weight, little more power, and a metric ton more brake.

[hustler]

Over the weekend I determined the car weighs 2380lb with driver, I estimate between 150-175whp. Should I be looking to base-class in TTCw/18 mod points or TTD* with 23 points? I emailed Greg but only asked for TTD numbers. The more I thought about it, I should have asked about C.

[ILIKETODRIVE]

Over the weekend I determined the car weighs 2380lb with driver, I estimate between 150-175whp. Should I be looking to base-class in TTCw/18 mod points or TTD* with 23 points? I emailed Greg but only asked for TTD numbers. The more I thought about it, I should have asked about C.

You need to find out exactly how much whp you make on an approved NASA Dynojet.

 

Then, ask for base classes at 2380lbs for TTD* TTD** and TTC. You'll have 3 different whp numbers for each and you can determine which would work best for you. Also, you could adjust weight up/down depending on how much whp you actually make and which base class you want.