TurboShortBus Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Be sure to closely follow TT rules section 6.5 and don't forget about the dyno certification sheet. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hustler Posted October 24, 2012 Author Share Posted October 24, 2012 Over the weekend I determined the car weighs 2380lb with driver, I estimate between 150-175whp. Should I be looking to base-class in TTCw/18 mod points or TTD* with 23 points? I emailed Greg but only asked for TTD numbers. The more I thought about it, I should have asked about C. You need to find out exactly how much whp you make on an approved NASA Dynojet. Then, ask for base classes at 2380lbs for TTD* TTD** and TTC. You'll have 3 different whp numbers for each and you can determine which would work best for you. Also, you could adjust weight up/down depending on how much whp you actually make and which base class you want. 157whp. I'd like to know the class break-points so I can adjust for those numbers. I am looking for a cheap way out, apparently it's going to take 1-3 more trips to the Dynojet at $175 each. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILIKETODRIVE Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Greg G will never give up his super secret formula BUT there are plenty of people here that could give you rough estimates based on previous new base classes. However, you really need to email GG and go from there. Try to get everything accomplished in a single email because sometimes it takes Greg 2-3 weeks to respond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 if you're at the point where you're happy with the power level (or don't feel like effin with it anymore), ask for weight options at a couple different base classes (say TTD, TTD*, TTD**, TTC) and be ready to bolt/un-bolt some lead. Pick one of the variables (at least) to stop messing with the 3 choices are base class, weight, and power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hustler Posted October 24, 2012 Author Share Posted October 24, 2012 Greg G will never give up his super secret formula BUT there are plenty of people here that could give you rough estimates based on previous new base classes. However, you really need to email GG and go from there. Try to get everything accomplished in a single email because sometimes it takes Greg 2-3 weeks to respond. I understand that, and I've emailed with my weight and rough peak WHP number, I'd like to know if I should be targeting TTD*/** or TTC. I'm getting the feeling that I don't really have a lot of choice in the matter though. I'm trying to build the car to the class, I'm just not sure what class I need to build it to. If it's going to TTD*, I have room for wing a splitter, if it goes to TTD** I need to lose the 225 NT-01s and get 205 SM6, the list goes on. if you're at the point where you're happy with the power level (or don't feel like effin with it anymore), ask for weight options at a couple different base classes (say TTD, TTD*, TTD**, TTC) and be ready to bolt/un-bolt some lead. Pick one of the variables (at least) to stop messing with the 3 choices are base class, weight, and power. I picked weight as the static variable, I have no idea how the hp/lb ratio adjusts with "*" so i'm not sure how to consider base classing...ignorance is my problem. I dropped from 250whp to 150whp...I'll never be happy with the power, lol. Adjusting engine output is easier and cheaper than buying and installing ballast in my 1-car apartment garage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 ~$0.50/lb or less for used weightlifting plates + drill + a few $$ for 2" wide steel plate bar to cut up into 2x2 backing plates + few more $ for bolts & locknuts = secured legal safe ballast. I'll do it trackside for you for a 6-pack of good beer.... And it's easier than swapping motors So anywho, I'm lost as to where you've ended up at this point Target competition class is ___ with what mods package? (that'll determine your target base class...) Then if you're set on holding the weight steady it's a one-line email to Greg - "I have a Miata at 2XXXlbs and want to be TT_ whatever base class so please tell me my max whp" and tune from there. If you want to hold power steady, flip that around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hustler Posted October 24, 2012 Author Share Posted October 24, 2012 ~$0.50/lb or less for used weightlifting plates + drill + a few $$ for 2" wide steel plate bar to cut up into 2x2 backing plates + few more $ for bolts & locknuts = secured legal safe ballast. I'll do it trackside for you for a 6-pack of good beer.... And it's easier than swapping motors So anywho, I'm lost as to where you've ended up at this point Target competition class is ___ with what mods package? (that'll determine your target base class...) Then if you're set on holding the weight steady it's a one-line email to Greg - "I have a Miata at 2XXXlbs and want to be TT_ whatever base class so please tell me my max whp" and tune from there. If you want to hold power steady, flip that around. If I work-out points on my car with a TTD** base class I take 21-points running a 225 tire (245 base) taking 21 total points, add the asterisks at 7 points each and I take 35 points total, taking me to TTC; 2380lb/14.25 = 167whp. I wish NASA published the TTX, TTX*, and TTX** ratios so it's not such a mystery. That way I could build my car to the limit of the rules without making threads on the internets. Also, if I can base-class in TTD (no asterisks) I can either run a 225 NT-01 in TTC or 205 SM6 in TTD, lol. Too bad I can't get ahold of those tires since I'm not in SM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 anyone can buy SM6s - KB, has about 6 of them in his possession currently - makes great cheap front tires for the MR2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILIKETODRIVE Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 anyone can buy SM6s Yup. Just place an order and blamo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Over the weekend I determined the car weighs 2380lb with driver, I estimate between 150-175whp. Should I be looking to base-class in TTCw/18 mod points or TTD* with 23 points? I emailed Greg but only asked for TTD numbers. The more I thought about it, I should have asked about C. I can give you two data points and you may be able to interpolate between them to get a general idea of how much power you could make before requesting the numbers from Greg. I have two W/P re-classifications for my car, a 1993 Miata, at a weight of 2395 lbs: TTD 161rwhp TTC 185rwhp I keep my car at the same weight and adjust power output for each class through the use of an inlet restrictor on my Rotrex supercharger and different spark maps. I think the power numbers would be slightly lower for an NB chassis. Have fun with this great platform! Joshua Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILIKETODRIVE Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 It's possible that at 157whp and 2380lbs (give or take 20lbs) you could squeeze a TTD base out of GG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hustler Posted October 26, 2012 Author Share Posted October 26, 2012 It's possible that at 157whp and 2380lbs (give or take 20lbs) you could squeeze a TTD base out of GG. Yep, my options are 161whp and a 205 SM6 for TTD and I'll be built-out for the class with the only "pointless mods" being the gigantic brakes. 179whp for TTC and I can run the 225 NT-01. For TTD I have to buy another set of wheels and tires, then I run the risk of being the only car in the class, so I'm not really sure what I'm going to do. I suspect I'll have a tough time getting more than 170whp out of this engine. Thanks for the help everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 We've got a couple instructors that are starting to show up more often that have E36 M3s in TTD trim. Once you get a class in the 2-3 range, it'll grow on its own much easier... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hustler Posted October 28, 2012 Author Share Posted October 28, 2012 Thanks K-Dogg. Any rule changes coming to us in the off season? I'd like be in TTD, I think the car can be nationally competitive there. We all know the driver is world-class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 other than TTA going away I haven't seen anything. Greg still hasn't settled the tire stuff like he said would happen by now though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dew-e Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 It's possible that at 157whp and 2380lbs (give or take 20lbs) you could squeeze a TTD base out of GG. Yep, my options are 161whp and a 205 SM6 for TTD and I'll be built-out for the class with the only "pointless mods" being the gigantic brakes. 179whp for TTC and I can run the 225 NT-01. For TTD I have to buy another set of wheels and tires, then I run the risk of being the only car in the class, so I'm not really sure what I'm going to do. I suspect I'll have a tough time getting more than 170whp out of this engine. Thanks for the help everyone. The 205 SM6 is faster than a 225 NT01. At least on my car, and I believe Josh has told me it was faster on his car as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILIKETODRIVE Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Emilio from 949 would disagree due to the fact that he runs the 225 NT01 on a 15x9. I'll find out in a few weeks which is faster on my car since it will be my first time trying out the SM6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hustler Posted October 30, 2012 Author Share Posted October 30, 2012 Let's not worry about who runs what...unless we want to drop NT-01 points so the 225 NT-01 is reflected as a tire with less grip than a 205 SM6 so I can save some money and not be forced into buying another set of wheels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILIKETODRIVE Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Let's not worry about who runs what...unless we want to drop NT-01 points so the 225 NT-01 is reflected as a tire with less grip than a 205 SM6 so I can save some money and not be forced into buying another set of wheels. Technically...depending on base class it is. If your base class is F: 225 NT01 is +7 and +1 for size = +8 205 SM6 is +10 and -1 for size = +9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hustler Posted October 31, 2012 Author Share Posted October 31, 2012 Let's not worry about who runs what...unless we want to drop NT-01 points so the 225 NT-01 is reflected as a tire with less grip than a 205 SM6 so I can save some money and not be forced into buying another set of wheels. Technically...depending on base class it is. If your base class is F: 225 NT01 is +7 and +1 for size = +8 205 SM6 is +10 and -1 for size = +9 A 1-point spread on the tires listed doesn't add-up, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILIKETODRIVE Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 A 1-point spread on the tires listed doesn't add-up, lol. Agreed. On top of that, E or D base class means you're getting back 7 or 10 points for size so they become +3 or free! (vs 225 NT01 would be +6 or +3) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedengineer Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 I think that an A6/R6 is generally faster than a wider but equal 'total points' 7-point tire. However I and my local track friends agree that the difference between them depends greatly on the track surface. Some tracks reward Hoosiers more than others. In my experience it seems that tracks with very smooth pavement (eg Mid-Ohio) favor hoosiers, but tracks with very coarse pavement (eg Putnam Park) don't benefit hoosiers as much (just wear them off in one weekend instead...). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hustler Posted January 24, 2013 Author Share Posted January 24, 2013 Soooooooooooo that engine I had lasted two days, lol. Now I have a 140-150whp stock VVT engine...I guess I'm looking at TTE** or so and mods put me into D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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