Factory Five 818

[rlogan]

I know it's not even out yet but you guys have a pretty good record of working FFR vehicles into the ST classes. I am thinking about building one (specifically for track use) when available and I am wondering whether there has already been discussion with Factory Five about classing this car (much like the coupe and roadster were done previously). I apologize if I missed any discussion on the sujbect elsewhere. Just getting some discussion started.

Ryan

[obzezzed350]

Given that the power level is up to you, any of the ST classes seem like the home for it. Neat design, probably my favorite out of FFR so far.

[rlogan]

Main concern is that it is "tube" frame and I use that term loosely, so all FFR cars per the rules need specific approval for ST.

[obzezzed350]

I would suspect that since all the other FFR models have ST approvals and an appropriate mod factor, that this one would be also.

[jason]

I thought STR was for tube frame cars?

[ILIKETODRIVE]

I thought STR was for tube frame cars?

Exactly.

 

According to fine print on the ST Classification Form, the list of "approved" non-production and tube-frame cars that take a mod factor hit will be left to compete in STR/SU in 2013. Or at least that's how I read it.

 

Once again, STR should just go byebye. My first time at Nationals in 2010, I even wondered why there was ST and STR. And I've been with NASA since 2007.

[rlogan]

So, non production cars that had previously been accepted for ST-1/2 go to STR/STU next year. Am I understanding that correctly? Glad I sold my FFR roadster which was in ST-1/ST-2

[mhoward1]

pretty much,

The FFR Challenge cars go into STR2/3 next year as well.

[jrgordonsenior]

STR2 becomes non-existant next year per Greg G.'s 2013 rules update thread.....

Item #7:

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=66268

[Grintch]

STR vs ST makes a big difference for lighter cars.

 

Power to weight factor adjustment for weight less than 1850lb

STR = -2.7

ST = -0.7

PT = -1.4

 

Why the differences? And in particular, why does the tube frame race car class have the biggest factor when the whole point of those cars is less weight? It is particularly weird in that the heavy side of the weight table is the same for all three categories.

[kbrew8991]

STR cars don't have the "warts" most ST cars have to deal with (retain OEM floorpan, trans tunnel, frame rails, etc)

[Greg G.]

STR vs ST makes a big difference for lighter cars.

 

Power to weight factor adjustment for weight less than 1850lb

STR = -2.7

ST = -0.7

PT = -1.4

 

Why the differences? And in particular, why does the tube frame race car class have the biggest factor when the whole point of those cars is less weight? It is particularly weird in that the heavy side of the weight table is the same for all three categories.

It was put into place because it is completely impossible for a stock car, GT tube frame car, or even the production cars that are modified enough to move to STR to compete against a true sports racer body (Stohr, etc) without a large mod factor. All of the non-sports racer cars that compete with us that weigh less than 1850 lbs have been given their own weight table in Appendix A of the ST Rules.

 

Allison Legacy's, Baby Grands, Legends, Pro Challenge, Thunder Roadsters:

When competing in STR, any of the above vehicles with a Competition Weight lighter than 1851

lbs (with driver) will use the following schedule for assessing Weight Modification Factors,

instead of using the table in Section 7.4.4:

Equal to or less than 1850 lbs: -0.7

Equal to or less than 1750 lbs: -0.75

Equal to or less than 1650 lbs: -0.8

Equal to or less than 1550 lbs: -0.85

Equal to or less than 1450 lbs: -0.9

(note: this is the same schedule as in Section 7.4.2 for ST cars)

[Grintch]

It was put into place because it is completely impossible for a stock car, GT tube frame car, or even the production cars that are modified enough to move to STR to compete against a true sports racer body (Stohr, etc) without a large mod factor. All of the non-sports racer cars that compete with us that weigh less than 1850 lbs have been given their own weight table in Appendix A of the ST Rules.

 

Allison Legacy's, Baby Grands, Legends, Pro Challenge, Thunder Roadsters:

When competing in STR, any of the above vehicles with a Competition Weight lighter than 1851

lbs (with driver) will use the following schedule for assessing Weight Modification Factors,

instead of using the table in Section 7.4.4:

Equal to or less than 1850 lbs: -0.7

Equal to or less than 1750 lbs: -0.75

Equal to or less than 1650 lbs: -0.8

Equal to or less than 1550 lbs: -0.85

Equal to or less than 1450 lbs: -0.9

(note: this is the same schedule as in Section 7.4.2 for ST cars)

 

If that is the intent then the weight table needs to be extended for all cars to lower weight to catpture the issue of sports racers, which are nowhere near the current 1850 lower limit (the above numbers look reasonable for those in between cars). More like 900-1000 lbs for a CSR and 1200-1300 lbs for a Sports 2000 or CSR. This would get them out of the range of the Pro Challenge type cars and lightweight kit cars which start at more like 1500 and above. Maybe add an extra adjustment factor for car with large diffusers, and also tunnels to help seperate the light GT cars from the Sports Racers.

Is it true that all the tube frame kit cars are being moved form PT & ST to STR?

[cancouper]

pretty much,

The FFR Challenge cars go into STR2/3 next year as well.

Really? What about ST/SU rule 8?

8. ST1, ST2, and ST3 Approved Non-Production & Tube-Frame Vehicles

Factory Five Roadster (if aero mods, wing, or splitter -0.4 Modification Factor. Note: no

Modification Factor for FF Challenge “standard front air dam”—See Appendix A)

Factory Five Type 65 Coupe (-0.4 Modification Factor)

[mhoward1]

pretty much,

The FFR Challenge cars go into STR2/3 next year as well.

Really? What about ST/SU rule 8?

8. ST1, ST2, and ST3 Approved Non-Production & Tube-Frame Vehicles

Factory Five Roadster (if aero mods, wing, or splitter -0.4 Modification Factor. Note: no

Modification Factor for FF Challenge “standard front air dam”—See Appendix A)

Factory Five Type 65 Coupe (-0.4 Modification Factor)

 

 

That was posted back in October when the big push to remove all tube frame cars from ST to STR. A lot changed between then and Dec/Jan.

[mhoward1]

[C.Plavan]

Just started my 818R up the other day..... Big accomplishment.

 

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=129063

[mhoward1]

Just an FYI, the blue one ran a 2:04 and the red one a 2:00 yesterday at VIR FOR UTCC

[johngeorge]

The FFR cars, red one and blue one both are around 345hp and they weigh around 2100lb

Here are the deductions how the cars are now:

-.4 non-production type vehicle

-.3 under 2200lb

-.7 Slicks

+.7 Smaller then 241 slicks

 

I get a -.7, so 6.2 is my max power/weight, which 2140lb minimum at 345hp comes out to 5.503:1 = ST1

 

Now.... If you want to run ST2:

-.4 non-production type vehicle

-.3 under 2200lb

+.7 DOT smaller then 245

I get a 0 deduction, so 8:0 ratio, for 2175lb car can have 270hp (just detune it). = ST2

[Scargod]

Not sure where to post this, but since it's about my 818 I'll try here.

Since it's a non-production type vehicle can I run any style, size, quantity and placement of tail-light(s) I want? I'd like to run a single, 12" LED strip.

Rules state:

11.4.18 Lights

There should be at least two (2) working red brake lights visible from 300 feet to the rear (except formula cars,

sports racers, and other vehicles specifically approved by the Event Director). Certain other race cars may be

exempt at the discretion of the Event Director.

15.15 Lights

All non-formula cars must have at least one (1) operating red brake light visible from the rear of the car, unless

otherwise stated as optional (or prohibited) by the specific class rules. All formula cars should have a red tail

light. All cars must have at least one functioning red taillight, red brake light, and adequate headlights when competing in night races.

[Emmanuel B.]

Not sure where to post this, but since it's about my 818 I'll try here.

Since it's a non-production type vehicle can I run any style, size, quantity and placement of tail-light(s) I want? I'd like to run a single, 12" LED strip.

Rules state:

11.4.18 Lights

There should be at least two (2) working red brake lights visible from 300 feet to the rear (except formula cars,

sports racers, and other vehicles specifically approved by the Event Director). Certain other race cars may be

exempt at the discretion of the Event Director.

15.15 Lights

All non-formula cars must have at least one (1) operating red brake light visible from the rear of the car, unless

otherwise stated as optional (or prohibited) by the specific class rules. All formula cars should have a red tail

light. All cars must have at least one functioning red taillight, red brake light, and adequate headlights when competing in night races.

 

A single visible functioning red brake light will meet the requirements.

[kbrew8991]

Not sure where to post this, but since it's about my 818 I'll try here.

Since it's a non-production type vehicle can I run any style, size, quantity and placement of tail-light(s) I want? I'd like to run a single, 12" LED strip.

Rules state:

11.4.18 Lights

There should be at least two (2) working red brake lights visible from 300 feet to the rear (except formula cars,

sports racers, and other vehicles specifically approved by the Event Director). Certain other race cars may be

exempt at the discretion of the Event Director.

15.15 Lights

All non-formula cars must have at least one (1) operating red brake light visible from the rear of the car, unless

otherwise stated as optional (or prohibited) by the specific class rules. All formula cars should have a red tail

light. All cars must have at least one functioning red taillight, red brake light, and adequate headlights when competing in night races.

 

A single visible functioning red brake light will meet the requirements.

 

if approved.

 

If you wanted to be really rules nerdy you could break the LED strip up into two "sides" or something. Redudancy would be nice in case one fails, you still have the other and won't be black flagged / meatballed.

[Scargod]

I was thinking that I would get two shorter ones and put them end-to-end for that very reason or in case I need to use one for a running light.

This is kinda where I'm going with it.