wstukas Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Will, That sounds awesome!! the only thing that might further mess my PMOI is taking the 40lbs of steel out of the passenger floorboard and replace that with a similar weight diffuser. Make sure you post pics of your conversion as well. While that may hurt your PMOI, the gains seen from a properly designed diffuser should far outweight the PMOI penalty. Problem with diffusers on all AI cars is the lack of any other underbody airflow conditioning. I'm sure there are still gains to be had though. A 40 lbs diffuser? What are you making it from?! I've been gathering parts for weeks (I'm doing more than just stretching the wheelbase and track). This weekend I should be ready to start cutting and welding. I'll post some pics. A teaser of whats to come for 2013... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nape Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 I have garage envy right now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshallmosty Posted February 4, 2013 Author Share Posted February 4, 2013 Finally got the rear flares finished. Still 1" too narrow per the rules, but that's all I can get from SN95 axles in a FOX housing. Using 1" spacers. Not too shabby considering they are made from the backing of old green industrial shelving... Slice, hammer, tack, bondo, primer, paint, voila!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UBR Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Nice job Marshall. How are you going to move the front track out? TJ, If you liked Marshall's shop, come down to StL and you can use ours. j Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshallmosty Posted February 4, 2013 Author Share Posted February 4, 2013 Jim, The front track is already out to 73.25". I used a combination of 3/4" spacers, 18mm offset 9.5" Enkei RPF1's and extending the LCA's when I changed to rod ends. I had to rearch the fenders and used 280Z flares and stretcher bars above the wheel centerline and in front of the wheel to get the fender out far enough to clear the tires. The front was "easy" relatively speaking. The rear was what took a bit more planning, playing and subsequent body work. Glad to have a shop to work in and a father who managed a paint and body shop his whole life to help out with the bondo and paint work. Leaves me time to think up other crazy ways to polish the ole' turd. Nice shop. Our place is 5500 sq ft (1500 office, 4000 shop). 2 2-pole lifts, air drops all over the place, fully climate controlled. I truly am spoiled. My dad restores antiques as something to do in retirement and does just enough work to break even on the building (loan, utilities, taxes, etc). Gives him (and my brother and I) a place to "play". Beats a storage yard for the trailer also. Fully loaded we can hold 12-13 cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UBR Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Thanks Marshall, I was running 3/4 spacers last season, but still have more track I could go. The spacers played havoc with the camber. (like -6 degrees) until I pulled it back out. I replaced the front body work with fiberglass last winter and went with 3" flares to take advantage of the extra track, so I have plenty of fender clearance. I was afraid to go anymore on the spacers and figured I'd have to go with different LCAs. Didn't consider different wheels. j Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshallmosty Posted February 4, 2013 Author Share Posted February 4, 2013 Thanks Marshall, I was running 3/4 spacers last season, but still have more track I could go. The spacers played havoc with the camber. (like -6 degrees) until I pulled it back out. I replaced the front body work with fiberglass last winter and went with 3" flares to take advantage of the extra track, so I have plenty of fender clearance. I was afraid to go anymore on the spacers and figured I'd have to go with different LCAs. Didn't consider different wheels. j 1" of spacer is all you can do with the ARP studs we all use. That still allows for 1 1/2 threads to protrude thru the end of the threaded portion of the nut (even though you can't see it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edhunter Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 My old fox at 74.5" wide on the front, 73.5 on the rear (I think). I used 1.25" bolt on spacers on the rear (or maybe 1.5" -don't exactly remember). Rear, with spacers on SN95 width axles.. Front undressed... Wider is better. Fender mods Sure miss this old car... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshallmosty Posted February 11, 2013 Author Share Posted February 11, 2013 Latest progress pics with the flares 100% complete.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystic_Cobra Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 Latest progress pics with the flares 100% complete.. You're such a tease. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshallmosty Posted February 11, 2013 Author Share Posted February 11, 2013 Jimmy, It's teasing me... Car is 99% ready for the track. Just need to put new 1/4 window Lexan back in and vacuum it out. My shoulder surgery (reason the the project in the first place) is on 22-Feb, so I'll be out for 8 weeks. That puts Event #2 and #3 out of reach, but #4 at NOLA in May is my "comeback" event... New motor, new suspension, new shoulder... Will be fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_tone Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 I know that I'm not the only one questioning the legality of these modifications....Has this entire exercise been deemed legal yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T&A Racing Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 I know that I'm not the only one questioning the legality of these modifications....Has this entire exercise been deemed legal yet? What rule or rules would it violate. Thanks Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nape Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 I know that I'm not the only one questioning the legality of these modifications....Has this entire exercise been deemed legal yet? There's nothing in the rules that says either axle center line has to stay within a certain measurement from factory and no one is cutting/moving any part of the floor pan or frame rails that would put them in violation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardP Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 I know that I'm not the only one questioning the legality of these modifications I know people that are shocked and upset to realize that the rules allow this type of mod. I don't know anyone who has found anything illegal with it... Richard P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UBR Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 I know people that are shocked and upset to realize that the rules allow this type of mod. If those people are racing in AI, perhaps they should read through the rules so they won't be so shocked. I run a Fox and have considered some of the things Marshall is trying. Being that I work in health care and not engineering, I figured I'd let some else try out something this crazy before I started pulling my car apart. You can bet if his lap times get dramatically better, I'll be looking at these pictures a lot closer to see what I can do. AI is the class where the rules encourage creative interpretation around a few basic standards. If that shocks people, there's always the spec classes. j Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshallmosty Posted February 21, 2013 Author Share Posted February 21, 2013 I know that I'm not the only one questioning the legality of these modifications....Has this entire exercise been deemed legal yet? Brian, If you can quote the section of the AI rules that this modification violates, please let me know. Otherwise, it's 100% legal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardP Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 If those people are racing in AI, perhaps they should read through the rules so they won't be so shocked. That's the problem. The AI rules don't tell you what you can do. They only tell you what you can't do. What isn't written in the AI rules is more important than what is there. Most people I've talked to don't have the technical creativity to see what isn't there. There certainly isn't anything in the rules that says you are allowed to move the entire chassis rearward on the wheelbase. From a legality standpoint, there isn't anything that says you can't. Richard P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T&A Racing Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 If those people are racing in AI, perhaps they should read through the rules so they won't be so shocked. That's the problem. The AI rules don't tell you what you can do. They only tell you what you can't do. What isn't written in the AI rules is more important than what is there. Most people I've talked to don't have the technical creativity to see what isn't there. There certainly isn't anything in the rules that says you are allowed to move the entire chassis rearward on the wheelbase. From a legality standpoint, there isn't anything that says you can't. Richard P. I think you have captured the hart of the intent. In general rules are written in two different ways. Spec classes have rules written so that it is not allowed by the rules then you can not do it. Others classes are written such that it is allowed unless prohibited in the rules. AI is the later, rules are written to prohibit or limited the different cars in an effort to keep things even. This allows racers and builders to be creative once in a while something is tried that makes it too difficult to maintain parity across the class so a new rule is born. I don't think this is a problem but the way things are. I would guess that while these changes are legal today and maybe forever on a fox body which is already challenged with a short and narrow chassis the same concept might not be as well received in a more competitive platform with a longer and wider chassis that is more balanced front to back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizlbits Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 btone set it, many of you are falling for it : My concern as a director is not the mods here. My concern is that the people building Spec Iron cars will take too many liberties. Spec Iron mods cannot be done unless the rules specifically say you can. This is a major change for long time AI racers; and a major difference between the two different classes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T&A Racing Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Chris I agree 100 percent this would not be allowed in Spec Iron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diller Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 If those people are racing in AI, perhaps they should read through the rules so they won't be so shocked. That's the problem. The AI rules don't tell you what you can do. I may be speaking out of turn because I am not a current AI racer. I am on my way to hopefully have something a little different in the next year to mix things up. From my perspective, this is not a "problem". Rather it is a feeling of freedom for me. I don't have a large budget at all. I can't afford to have a shop set the car up for me or buy exotic materials to lighten the car. I can, however, spend my weekends researching all the "tricks" to make a car go faster in any given situation. If I see somebody go faster because the did X, I think "cool, I need to do something like that" rather than "This isn't fair". I have been looking at AI for a long time and the modifications done here are another reason I love the series and want to get involved as soon as I can. Since 2009 I have always looked at AI as a great sandbox to play in and I hope the rules stay open enough for creativity and stay far away from a spec series. Just my 0.02 and I may need some change back . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UBR Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 From my perspective, this is not a "problem". Rather it is a feeling of freedom for me. If I see somebody go faster because the did X, I think "cool, I need to do something like that" rather than "This isn't fair". This is exactly the AI attitude. Leave the rules "open" for me to back yard engineer the way I want and see how it works out. If I come up with something so good, than expect others to copy it... or wait for a rule addressing it. You'll fit into AI well. j Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshallmosty Posted February 21, 2013 Author Share Posted February 21, 2013 btone set it, many of you are falling for it : My concern as a director is not the mods here. My concern is that the people building Spec Iron cars will take too many liberties. Spec Iron mods cannot be done unless the rules specifically say you can. This is a major change for long time AI racers; and a major difference between the two different classes. Chris, This has never been a discussion about SI. I posted this well before even the directors knew that SI was brewing... Much of what I've done with my car wouldn't be legal in SI (even if the chassis was legal to begin with). This was just a unique approach to a problem that I wanted to share with the group for the nerds that think it's "cool"... Believe me, the next "cool" thing that I come up with will be plastered here as well. I like to share thoughts and ideas to keep everyone thinking about evolution of their platform and not just spending money for catalog parts and expecting that to be enough. Just my .02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 while SI has "I" in the name, it's really a CMC-esque class. I don't know why any of those guys would look at AI cars for ideas... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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