Red Tornado Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Interesting changes over in ST forum. AI cars direct fit in ST3 it seems. Also should vette be allowed in AI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbodleimages Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 my only concern racing in class with corvettes is that their body is much more aerodynamically designed than pony cars. if we were to go purely on equal p to w ratio the corvettes should have an advantage. my view is that a c5 without aero is equal to a mustang/camaro with good aero. past that i am good with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tornado Posted October 6, 2012 Author Share Posted October 6, 2012 PTA class runs near our times w similar Hoosiers so on Toyos should be similar. Not saying serious eval isn't needed but why wouldn't you allow vettes a home besides st. Besides gets all rear wheel v8 American made cars together like old days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbodleimages Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 as i said, i am not against it. a quick check of the nationals results showed that dean ran a fast lap of 1:34.3 in the dry friday qual race. the pta winner in the dry championship race ran a 1:33.3. putting them on toyos would bring them back nicely. that assumes as i said in my initial comment that the pta guys are not allowed aero changes. their aero starts with the body work and drivetrain balance of those two seat cars. my guess is that the corvette drivers would not be against that as they were running pta to avoid having to buy $2k wings. i will say that i dont think nasa national would be a fan of this idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ed M. Posted October 7, 2012 Members Share Posted October 7, 2012 I guess the vette guys would also have to run on a 9.5"max wheel and a 275 max tire. Now they would really have to learn how to drive! Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drivinhardz06 Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 That will be a hard adjustment to make for us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperkins Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 I guess the vette guys would also have to run on a 9.5"max wheel and a 275 max tire. Now they would really have to learn how to drive! Ed Where have you been the last 3 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knownukes Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 It probably would help with car count in AI. My question is why aren't people building Camaros and Challengers. Having those cars on track with the Mustangs would really be cool. Also, using Dean's time for comparisons sake is not wise. He is significantly faster than everybody in AI. Take one of the other top guys to compare times with. I would hate to let the Vettes in and then they dominate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbodleimages Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 * using dean shows all that can be gotten out of a car. if the best pta lap time at the nationals on hoosier was 1 second faster than dean on toyos, you have something of a max out number for the ai car. the ai car was on toyos, yes, but it also had a professional champion ford driver in the seat and a full aero package of splitter, vented hood and roof height wing against a bare corvette with a fast amatuer driver. i think that compare sets the table nicely. * we have a challenger in nasa se. the driver, joel, would tell you that its too heavy and that there are limited off the shelf parts to make it a road racer. for instance the rear end is open and the traction control rear abs manages the launch. i am surprised that nobody is bringing the new camaro at this point, but it appears that in addition to being very heavy they are just extremely expensive to build. as a measure, the factory purchased grand am spec Boss 302R is $130k. dean might could build one for half of that. the Boss 302S world challenge package costs $80k. i am told that the grand am package camaro from riley costs $250k and that its hard to build it on your own at all. the mustang/ford racing program is very customer friendly. neither dodge nor gm have a factory program at present. my take is that as chrysler stands up SRT that some racing gear may become available over the counter as the R stands for racing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperkins Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 I would hate to let the Vettes in and then they dominate. Everbody is scared of a 16yr old car on leaf springs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edhunter Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 My AI car was a TTS/TTA car, depending on tires. I couldn't get close to the vettes times at VIR in either class.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99cobra2881 Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Everbody is scared of a 16yr old car on leaf springs. Yep, and they should be when they're driving a race car based off a 40 year old fairmont chassis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tornado Posted October 7, 2012 Author Share Posted October 7, 2012 I hated change now getting older. Hell let them come run with us for a true American shoot out! Yes tons of rule tweaks for them and they need to accept first year being slightly off pace but why not open it slightly So Todd is this total pipe dream or a hmmm slim but lets think about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra4B Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 I guess the vette guys would also have to run on a 9.5"max wheel and a 275 max tire. Now they would really have to learn how to drive! Ed Ed... my TTA record is on a 9.5" wheel with 245s I would hate to let the Vettes in and then they dominate. Everbody is scared of a 16yr old car on leaf springs. All the car rags knock the Vettes as dated technology with silly pushrods and leafsprings. Just poking fun. I'd be very interested in running AI with my car. ST has very little participation but AI always has action. My car is very equal to Cobetto's AI car around VIR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drivinhardz06 Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 I personally don't care about the AI vette thing, but if somebody is serious about it, I'll be at VIR next fri for T&T and would be happy to test the car on Toyos if you want to compare times against a front running PTA c5. There are a lot of reasons I don't think the merge will ever happen though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbodleimages Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 cobetto is about as developed as ai cars get. that means you pta car is awfully fast. oh and btw....a 245 hoosier is the same actual width as a 275 toyo. edit: i agree there are reasons why it wouldnt happen. the death of pta was because the corvette car count was getting divided with not enough going either way. eliminating pta is largely to unify those cars in one good class..yes? moving the pta cars to ai works against that completely. or...maybe i am wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra4B Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 cobetto is about as developed as ai cars get. that means you pta car is awfully fast. oh and btw....a 245 hoosier is the same actual width as a 275 toyo. edit: i agree there are reasons why it wouldnt happen. the death of pta was because the corvette car count was getting divided with not enough going either way. eliminating pta is largely to unify those cars in one good class..yes? moving the pta cars to ai works against that completely. or...maybe i am wrong. You want to unify Corvettes then delete PTA and don't create ST3 to replace it. Right now it's rather easy for a C5 to go either way. Some headers and a tune and 275s and you're ST2. Slightly choke back the stock engine and add some pounds and you're ST3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbodleimages Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 unifying under st is what i should have said. its worth noting that nasa national does not want ai cars of st2 hp racing in st if they can avoid it. recall the nationals schedule which for the first time put st2 and ai in the same race group a year after an ai car won the st2 championship race. its just my feeling that having it go the other way is just as unacceptable to them. lets see if either todd or greg respond to this idea. so far i have not seen one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra4B Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Wait... are we the paying customers? Or are they the benevolent series providers giving us amateurs a place to play racecar driver? It just seems the C5 keeps getting jostled around. Doesn't make much sense to me. You've got a relatively cheap car capable of serious performance that's easy to work on, well engineered, has a robust aftermarket, and fills up much of the HPDE ranks with most every run group out there. It seems a stable home for the platform would be in the interest of everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbodleimages Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 its funny. if you go to the scca forums, all the c5 drivers there are saying they are all leaving scca for nasa st2 because of class rule changes in scca. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra4B Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 its funny. if you go to the scca forums, all the c5 drivers there are saying they are all leaving scca for nasa st2 because of class rule changes in scca. Yeah lots of chatter from the T1 guys in the Road Racing/Auto-X section of Corvetteforum. That was all before this ST3 vs. ST2 stuff cropped up. Would you AI guys even consider rolling AI into ST3 to make one class with nice consistent car counts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99cobra2881 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Really? Why did I waste all my time, effort, and money building a mustang to race AI? Was it just to have the vette come in and turn the class into vette iron. This is a bad idea and American Iron as we know it is dead if this happens. Itll be a bunch of vette drivers who come in under our AI rules at first then theyll bitch that they need aero too, then they need more HP and finally the mustang or any other non-corvette platform will be pushed out of AI. Dont think it will happen? Then go ahead and allow the corvettes in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNAKBITN Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 If you ask any of the AI racers,not the class jumpers but the guys that run AI every time they race they will not agree with this idea.I don't want to merge into ST anything.I built a AI car to run American Iron.If that happens I would probably build a CMC car. Robert American Iron #20 Mustang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brkntrxn Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Robert, I built a car for PTA and look what NASA did to that class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I guess the vette guys would also have to run on a 9.5"max wheel and a 275 max tire. Now they would really have to learn how to drive! Ed they already run 275s by and large.... I'd be interested to see a limited-prep C5 run around with the rest of the AI crowd - would be exciting to see Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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